Theorycraft

To keep my mental computations quick and my arithmetic sharp, every now and then I'll play with the game stats and see what mischief I can make. For example:

It would take 427 build for an assassin using nothing but a normal small weapon and backstab profs to swing for "20 backstab" or "Assail 100 body."

If you enjoy silliness, math, mental gymnastics, or double checking someone else's crazy mental math feel free to post and share your own ideas (and constructively correct me if I did any computations wrong).

PS: and yes, I know, I've been a bad scientist and used the term "theory" where I should have used "hypothesis"...the shame!

Challenge:

What is the least expensive way (build wise, no runes) to deal 20 damage with a melee weapon?

Show your work!

Lying

I HE (2), Backstab Prof +8 (58), Crit Arrack (2)

That was fast...

I'll stretch the challenge a bit. Base damage, which may be augmented by spells, potions, etc. but not combo skills. Pre-requisites & career points must be purchased as well, factoring into the cost.

Free List: Assassin, 1 build Small Weapon, 36 build for first 6 backstab, 72 for next 6 backstab, 144 for the next 6 backstab, 48 for 1 more backstab, 2 for Crit Attack, 6 for assail.....309 build for an assassin to swing 20 backstab with small weapon and assail for 100.

Barbarian Warrior (Free class)
(10) Northern Body: Str +1 & 2HE
(45) Strength +3
(30) Strength +1 more
(15) Druid, Free domain, one 1 rank one Fauna spell, Bear Strength, 2 DP
(10) Weapon Prof +1
+++
110 Build for 5 base, +7 Str (5 Natural, 2 from spell = +14 Damage), and +1 for Weapon Prof.

Hm. Can anyone beat this?

UPDATE: HA! I thought the build increased every 3 purchases for backstab. Damien is correct! Great catch, bud!

Here's what I was thinking for those interested in the math side of things:
Sm weapon (1 build)=1 damage
Backstab +1(scaling 6 build)= +1

Backstab+19=6*3+12*3+18*3+24*3+30*3+36*3+42= 420 build
+crit attack (2 build) +assail (6 build)= 428 build required.

I think I might have an idea

Celt Dragoon: Free Class

(10)Celtic Heritage
(4)Polearm
(1)Lore Dragon
(45)Strength+3
(10)Spirit of the Dragon
(10)Bard
(3)Spellsong Points
(1)Rank 1 Spellsong
(2)Rank 2 Spellsong
(3)Fanfare of Victory

Base 4 damage +6 damage(Strength+3) +2dmg(Spirit of the Dragon)+4dmg(Celtic Resolve)+4dmg(Fanfare of Victory)=88 Build

GJSchaller wrote: Challenge:

What is the least expensive way (build wise, no runes) to deal 20 damage with a melee weapon?

Show your work!

10 Build.

"You, Goblin priest! Bestow blade of victory upon me! Command Goblinoid!"

Then hope they're not too terribly literal with that request.

hmmm

Celt Dragoon
(10) Racials
(4) 2HE
(10) Weapon Prof +1
(2) Critical Attack


5 base + 1 prof + 4 Celt Resolve (the normal 2 doubled) = 10 then use Crit to get 20.

26 points to do it once. Two points more build for each additional swing of 20 that connects.

For more consistent damage during a battle, spend another 65 points (+3 strength and +2 Prof) for +8 dmg... then the calc goes like this

5 base +3 prof + 4 Celt Resolve (base 2) + 6 from Strength (base 3) = 18 base before Crit attack makes it 36.

Sooooo

26 points to do it once.
91 points to have a higher base damage that is close to 20 before crit.

Now if you are looking for consistent 20 damage.... then the calc changes to the following:

5 base +3 prof + 4 Celt Resolve + 8 from Strength (base 4 now) for 20 damage without crit being involved.

Total build spent is 104 points.... then of course, it gets really painful for every 2 points spent on Crit.

Challenge:

What is the least expensive way (build wise, no runes) to deal 20 damage with a melee weapon?

Show your work!

Sm weapon (1 build), 4 gold.

Pay for a moderate blade poison, apply, and deal 20 poison damage.

And Elias wins the thread

J. wrote:

Challenge:

What is the least expensive way (build wise, no runes) to deal 20 damage with a melee weapon?

Show your work!

Sm weapon (1 build), 4 gold.

Pay for a moderate blade poison, apply, and deal 20 poison damage.

Well technically, since this is the only tactic that involves a monetary transaction, wouldn't that make it the MOST expensive?

Barbarian Brute

(10) racial strength
(4) unarmed combat
(45) 3 strength
(60) 6 unarmed profs

Superior exalted Crystal knuckles with 2 sockets 1 with 2 damage runes and 1 with 1 damage rune

+5 from augments on top of that
Which would be 21 damage
Assimilation to get augments for damage from more types

119 build and 270 gold

The items & augments didn't come from the build, so they don't count - the idea is to get to 20 on your own with as little build as possible.

Kanas Whisperwood Silverfang wrote:
Base 4 damage +6 damage(Strength+3) +2dmg(Spirit of the Dragon)+4dmg(Celtic Resolve)+4dmg(Fanfare of Victory)=88 Build

I think you hit the augment cap hard ...

I know. I'll try again later when I'm not sleep deprived.

GJSchaller wrote: Barbarian Warrior (Free class)
(10) Northern Body: Str +1 & 2HE
(45) Strength +3
(30) Strength +1 more
(15) Druid, Free domain, one 1 rank one Fauna spell, Bear Strength, 2 DP
(10) Weapon Prof +1
+++
110 Build for 5 base, +7 Str (5 Natural, 2 from spell = +14 Damage), and +1 for Weapon Prof.

Hm. Can anyone beat this?

why not drop a str and have 2 wep profs, saves 10 build.

Bill's right. The 4th Strength is 30 build for +2 damage. Two profs would only be 20.

100 Build even. Nice catch, Bill.

Why are you guys basically building grim? (only sub berserker+berserker rage for druid)

EDIT: I made a few mistakes (writing Archer instead of Ranger and assuming that ranged weapons benefited from Strength). I'll adjust this accordingly and... come in 3rd place.


Ranger (0)
Bow (2)
Ranged Weapon Prof. +1 x 6 (36); six more at 12 each (72)
Total cost = 110 build

Bow - 8 base
Ranged Weapon Profs - +12

20 damage per shot.

Nalick wrote: Celt Cavalier/Archer

Cavalier (0)
Archer (10) (Learned Profession)
Celtic Heritage (10)
Bow (2)
Ranged Weapon Prof. +1 x 6 (36); two more at 12 build each (24)
Animal Empathy (1)
Cat-Like Grace (1)
Bear Strength (2)
Druidic Points (2)
Total cost = 88 build

Bow - 8 base
Ranged Weapon Profs - +8
Celtic Resolve - +2
Bear Strength - +2

20 damage per shot.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think strength doesn't augment bow

For Strength, the rulebook defines it as...

Strength +1
Skill (Continuous), Proficiency
With this damage augmenting skill, a character is stronger than a normal person, and can add one to their Melee, Natural, or Thrown weapon damage, or two to their Melee weapon damage if they are wielding a 2HE, 2HB, or Pole-arm weapon. See the Combat section for full details on how much a character may carry / lift.

So it does NOT look like you can add Strength to Archery.

Shoot.

Nalick wrote: Shoot.

Nalick Underhill, Bringer of False Hopes

JTinney wrote: Now if you are looking for consistent 20 damage.... then the calc changes to the following:

5 base +3 prof + 4 Celt Resolve + 8 from Strength (base 4 now) for 20 damage without crit being involved.

Total build spent is 104 points.... then of course, it gets really painful for every 2 points spent on Crit.

The 4th Strength Prof would cost 30, for a total cost of 119. Still, that's brutal.

So far, it appears #1 is Geoff (after Bill's suggestion of 2 WP over the extra Strength) with 100.

Well, here's the new #1 for swinging continuous 20 damage in melee for a battle:

Ogre Warrior
Blunted Mastery (3 Build) - 2HB base damage of 5
Ogre Wrath (10 Build) - Strength +1, for +2 damage
Monstrous Body (10 Build) - Strength +1, for +2 damage
Strength +3 (45 Build) - Strength +3, for +6 damage
Weapon Proficiency (2HB) +1 (10 Build) - Weapon Prof +1, for +1 damage
Berserker List (10 Build)
Berserker's Rage (5 Build) - Strength +2 while raging for entire battle, +4 damage

The totals would be:

Damage: 5 Base + 10 Strength + 1 Proficiency + 4 Rage = 20 Damage
Build: 3 + 10 + 10 + 45 + 10 + 10 + 5 = 93 Build

Belegchand wrote: So far, it appears #1 is Geoff (after Bill's suggestion of 2 WP over the extra Strength) with 100.

Well, here's the new #1 for swinging continuous 20 damage in melee for a battle:

Ogre Warrior
Blunted Mastery (3 Build) - 2HB base damage of 5
Ogre Wrath (10 Build) - Strength +1, for +2 damage
Monstrous Body (10 Build) - Strength +1, for +2 damage
Strength +3 (45 Build) - Strength +3, for +6 damage
Weapon Proficiency (2HB) +1 (10 Build) - Weapon Prof +1, for +1 damage
Berserker List (10 Build)
Berserker's Rage (5 Build) - Strength +2 while raging for entire battle, +4 damage

The totals would be:

Damage: 5 Base + 10 Strength + 1 Proficiency + 4 Rage = 20 Damage
Build: 3 + 10 + 10 + 45 + 10 + 10 + 5 = 93 Build

You'd need 2 build worth of filler skills, since you couldn't take berserker rage until 90 build spent (level 9). Still 95 build total is the reigning champ it seems.

95 is the lowest I can get, but here is a version that swings 23
Ogre Berserker Druid
Ogre Wrath 10 (Str +1)
Monstrous Body 10 (Str +1)
Berserker (free)
2HE 4
Strength +3 45
Berserker Rage 5
Druid 10
Lore Druidics 1
2x First Rank Druidics 2
Bear Strength 2
2 DP
2x Critical Attacks (or 4 DP -- anything to get to 95 build)
95 build swinging 23s
Or do not get berserker rage and swing 19 for 86 build.
As of the way it is currently phrased, it does not look like berserker rage is effected by the augment cap (it does not have trait Augment in either the rulebook or errata) but if that is incorrect please reply.

Alex