Body Ratio Adjustment

Hey guys, I failed to communicate something properly when explaining the body ratios, and as a result a mistake was coded in. Your casting points were intended to count towards your body ratios, but your crafting points were not. The confusing stems from a poor habit of calling career points CP as an abbreviation, and also using CP as the proper abbreviation for crafting points. We have fixed that error, and as a result some of you are seeing differences in your body ratio. It was always intended by James and I that casting points were 'skill instances'.

Well, time to buy more puncture armors...

I think all points spent in a class should count. If casting points are to count, then crafting points should as well.

It is only fair

It also destroys the armor multiplier too.

I can't say I quite get why casting points should affect our BR if no other types of career points do.

"Casting Points" is Faith, Magic, Psi, Spell Song, Druid... in other words, everything BUT Crafting Points.

Just as a general note: this does seem a little complicated - perhaps not for a video game, but moreso for a LARP.

Might I suggest the following formula:

This way, we don't have to deal with fractions of body points, and also don't have to worry about our BP totals changing too frequently (at the moment, BP totals are going to fluctuate in a way that is difficult to predict - particularly at lower levels.)

I'm not quite understanding, is there a reason why crafting points are not factored into the total? They are no different than "casting points" for the crafting lists.

indeed...

Casters are already fairly "squishy" enough.... this makes them even more so.

I know spells and protections help.... but there are always ways around such things. To borrow an old D&D analogy- its bad enough a common housecat can usually kill a mage... but this change brings them down to having common rat have a chance of pulling it off.


Its definitely Food for thought... and brings up two fairly solid questions:

1- If casting points and crafting points are NOT counted, how much does it change things from just before the re-coding?
2- How much of a change does having the crafting points count same as Casting points do to crafters?

Yes... as a Ranger, I am a caster too... but its minor parlour tricks compared to Druids. I took a decent hit with this on both Armor Multiplier (I now have less armor protection than I had before the system changed) and Body ratios...and I don't have much casting power to speak of.

I'll play it either way- I really have no problems with doing so (I always forgot to use Armor points anyway.. :S ).... but I do have concerns for other PC's.

If any of you have ever played Advanced Squad Leader or the La Bataille system of Napoleonic boardgames, you will understand when I say that the rules have overtaken the game.

Most people forget when each class had their own body ratio to begin with. This is more like the original body system from the creation of the game. Pure/ Straight classes saw no real change, just the hybrid fighter/ rouge/ casters.

Guys give it all a chance before shooting it down.

Chris d

I lost over 200 body and don't have nearly the same armor as I did before, and I couldn't be happier. These rules are great changes that will bring balance to the game and make tag skills matter rather than being a temporary inconvenience. I just thought I'd offer my opinion as someone who was negatively affected by this but sees the purpose of it! Thanks!

Also: with lower body/armor/damage LOOK how more useful spells like drain life and earth armor are going to be again!!!

If we think Crafting Points should affect BP ratios: how would we go about doing so?

Here is a list of the professions that have access to Crafting Points:

Alchemist
Assassin
Druid
Healer
Physician
Scholar
Smith

... It's fairly diverse. Are they a combat skill (as per Smith,) a rogue skill (as per Assassin,) a caster skill (as per Druid,) or something else (Scholar, for example?)

With that in mind, it might perhaps make a bit more sense as to why they aren't being factored in.

Three things worth mentioning, although I will not be debating or responding to responses... I just don't have time, too busy trying to improve every other aspect of the game and the camp...

1) The addition of casting points... literally no big deal. We did the math. Gideon who had 190 magic points, lost 2 body points as a result. Don't be so afraid, its not going to drastically effect the BP total of a generally balanced multi-classed character.

2) The system is simple if you don't concern yourself with min-maxing numbers.
- Your ratio is Uniquely tailored to your character
- If you buy combat-type skills, your ratio ticks slightly upward, towards three
- If you buy Spellcaster-type skills your ratio ticks slightly downward, towards one
- The Card System does all the work for you, and tells you what your ratio is.
- If you are NOT interested in totally min-maxing your body-points to a finite degree, then you don't need to concern yourself past that.
- If you ARE interested in min-maxing your body points to a finite degree, just buy as much combat skills as possible and don't spend too much on spell casting skills...
- If your character has half her build spent in combat abilities... and half her build spent in spell abilities... her ratio will be about two.
Its really not complicated, if you just understand the above bullet points.

3) We have spent the last year pouring over all of these changes and how they will effect every aspect of the game. We believe that things will fall into place shortly and the game balance will improve dramatically as a result. If we find out we were wrong about something we will not hesitate to fix it.. however I think things will be more than fine.

Thanks

Cory, as a note for your suggestion - there will be no fractional body points, everything is rounded to come out even. No one even needs to do any math - it's all calculated for you, and printed on your card. You only need to do complicated math if you wish to calculate the exact amount of build you need to invest to increase your ratio to a specific number. (I actually made a Google Docs spreadsheet for this, once I make it look pretty, I will link it in the future.)

The main reason for the change, overall, is that anything simpler would be easy to "game" to maximize body. Prior to this, it was "Open a Fighter class, spend build." Now, it accurately reflects how you choose to focus your skills - as an example, Gideon is just about 50/50 when it comes to 3 BR skills, and 1 BR skills. And his Body Ratio is... a 2, right where it should be. I can't just go and buy build at 3:1, nor can I carefully select which skills I buy to keep a favored ratio that works to my advantage (i.e. - Since I have a few build more in 3 BR skills, I can't keep a 3.0 BR. My actual ratio reflects that half my build is in caster lists).

As for the choice on Crafting Points vs. the rest, I will defer to Mike Smith and James on their insight for that one.

Will decimal point BP-ratios still give you the extra BP when they add up to whole numbers?

For instance, will someone with a 3.5 BP ratio get 7 BP for putting in 2 build? Or just 6, because the system rounds it to 3 each time?

PIT DAWWWWWWG wrote: Will decimal point BP-ratios still give you the extra BP when they add up to whole numbers?

For instance, will someone with a 3.5 BP ratio get 7 BP for putting in 2 build? Or just 6, because the system rounds it to 3 each time?

IIRC... it rounds up, not down.

PIT DAWWWWWWG wrote: Will decimal point BP-ratios still give you the extra BP when they add up to whole numbers?

For instance, will someone with a 3.5 BP ratio get 7 BP for putting in 2 build? Or just 6, because the system rounds it to 3 each time?

We round up within a purchase tier. So if you have a 3.5 Ratio (2.5 with the +1 for the first 15 purchases) and you spend 2 build you would get 3.5 + 3.5 = 7 No rounded needed.

But if you have a 3.4 Ratio and spent 2 build you would see this... 3.4 +3.4 = 6.8 which we then round up to 7.

So for very small amounts of build the body numbers will end up being very close. Take that out to 15 build spent though. 3.5 * 15 = 52.5 which rounds up to 53. 3.4 * 15 = 51 (no rounded needed) A difference of 2 body between those two investments.

Let's take it one step further. Let's say that each of our examples above spent 1 more build on body. They would get 2.5 and 2.4 body each for those.

53 + 2.5 = 55.5 which rounds up to 56
51 + 2.4 = 53.4 which rounds up to 54

Make sense?

Joe H.

PIT DAWWWWWWG wrote: Will decimal point BP-ratios still give you the extra BP when they add up to whole numbers?

For instance, will someone with a 3.5 BP ratio get 7 BP for putting in 2 build? Or just 6, because the system rounds it to 3 each time?

From www.knightrealms.com/forum/Announcements...amage,-and-soak.html :

"Additional Body Points are calculated by the amount of build they have invested into their Body, multiplied by a ratio based on the amount of build they have invested into their various professions." followed by "All fractional Body Scores are rounded up."

So if you have a 2.8 ratio, you will get 3 (2.8, rounded up), then 6 (5.6), then 9 (8.4), then 12 (11.2), and then 14 - only when the fractions accumulate enough, will you see less body. Of course, if your ratio is lower, you'll see that sooner rather than later - a 2.5 will see it every other purchase, while a 2.9 will not see it until every 10th purchase of body.

In short:

* The system is designed so you can't game or plateau your Body Ratio for max body, short of taking JUST Warrior skills (Which is fine!).

* It will be generous towards the player, not detrimental, as much as possible, while preventing min / maxing and powergaming.

Dammit, Joe...

Is there any way to prevent the body total from changing upon purchasing new skills, the number changing every event (or every few events) is extremely confusing

Angelica Tartaros wrote: Is there any way to prevent the body total from changing upon purchasing new skills, the number changing every event (or every few events) is extremely confusing

Your body score should not change dramatically from month to month. It may float up or down in response to what you are learning but it should be pretty predictable. If you are concerned that you might be close to a drop in body points check your online card. The "Explain my Body Total" link should have enough information for you to figure out where you are.

But once a character is established, the month to month learning expenditures should not make much of a change to their Body Ratio or their Body Points total.

Unless you are buying more BP (In which you expect your number to change a decent amount), you will not notice the BP shift because it will be very slow and very gradual, especially the higher level you get.

So basically... one event you might have 46 BP... a few events later (at no more BP's purchased) your BP might be at 45 or 47 ... or even stay at 46. You do not calculate your body points that precisely, while in combat .. no one does... thus it really should not be a problem if a few events ago you had 46 BP, but now you have 45... but you forgot and thought you had 46... those 1 or 2 point differences are not going to factor into any problems.

It makes more sense now that it's explained.

So now you don't need to wait to take a class because it'll kill your body points in the future. And you could, in theory, wind up being the most buff scholar or healer around if you "warrior out" over time.

Knight Realms - Simple Body Ratio & Body calculator:

docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0At-...rNXRwU2c&usp=sharing

Hi everyone!

Just some friendly advice! The google drive file is modifiable by multiple users at the same time.
So if you start typing you might see the numbers suddenly change because someone else is checking out their build/body count.
To avoid getting disturbed by other users Click FILE and select CREATE A COPY.

This will allow you to work on your own copy of the body calculator without disruption!

My problem, is because of the racial penalty - whicj is pretty harsh for elves, and the addition of the druid pts to the 1 for 1, I am yet again below 100 body, which I NEED to use my 4th rank Heroic Witch Hunter ability.

What this system is going to create, is race bassed Min/Maxing.

There is NO reason anyone wold play an elven fighter. It is too much a detriment to the character.

as I see, witth my present build spent on body, I have been penelized over 20 body for my race - something that was not in the original rules.

I can understand the max allowed purchase as it was, but now, why would anyone play s non-ogre fighter class?

Because they care about the game/roleplay/character instead of min-maxing

IMO, RP was dropped by the wayside when they made Ceremonies and Sorcery (among other lists) no longer subject to a percentage chance of failure. The damage system is now inherently unbalanced, as SLAY does 400 damage, which is just about as instant a kill as possible. Add to it the various skills available to Rogue class (particularly assassinate) and an entire new paradigm of damage emerges. ROGUES ARE KINGS