Visagalis

11 Mar 2014 17:11 #1 by Razael Seiryn (Razael Seiryn)
Visagalis was created by Razael Seiryn (Razael Seiryn)
The snowy season has prevented me from making it to the last baronial feast. This has left a sour taste in my mouth as I lost the opportunity to further investigate the matter of Visagalis's legitimacy.
I'm also unaware if Mr. Bat Cooper ever had his pow-wow to talk about the matter at hand, but I feel every man who has a vested interest should share what they have learned on the subject.

I maledict'd a follower of Visagilis, who in turn invoked a prayer of my own goddess in front of me, while being cut off from divine power THROUGH the will of said Goddess. This is inexcusable heresy. Visagalis is a plague amongst the lands of all those on either end who are of any faith. He is a demon emulating the will of the gods; and if he wishes to deter those of faith from their gods and cause strife amongst people; blood and war, then so be it. However, my Goddess is not so weak as to allow such an affront her to her will go unpunished.

This matter needs to be investigated further before bloodshed is inevitable; I will openly share any knowledge I acquire on the subject publicly. Those who have more information, stories, or experiences around the subject; I implore you to share them. We need to figure out what is going on immediately.

Razael Seiryn

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11 Mar 2014 17:49 #2 by Templar Aldric (Selrik)
Replied by Templar Aldric (Selrik) on topic Visagalis
Father Razael,

There hath been a few developments in the intervening months since last thee were at the Proper. The most notable was information given the Church of Light that indicates the Eternal Battlefield is empty of combatants and that the Gods, all of them, walk our Lands as flesh. The Heavens were damaged by the acts of Xualla and/or the destruction and reformation of the Weave, so by unanimous agreement the Gods, Light, Dark and Neutral, left the Heavens so that it could heal. Given that, though I am no expert by any means, it may have had some effect on the workings of Malediction. More tests need be done.

However, let me first bask in the irony of a Priest of one of the Dark Gods becoming so passionate about another religion to suggest it is Heresy and must not be allowed to exist........all right, I am done, that's enough basking.

All levity aside, my opinion on this entity is unchanged from when we last spoke on the matter and I will continue to share discourse on it. To my knowledge after the appearance of Father Lazarus and subsequent conflict with one of his lieutenants, there has been no further direct contact with this cult. When thou art next in the Proper, I will be certain to discuss this further with thee.

Regards,

Templar Aldric
Champion Fisherman of Amanthyre
Prophet of the Holy Light
Templar of Valos



"The sacred writings are quite specific on the subject of killing, but are a bit fuzzier on the topic of kneecaps."

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11 Mar 2014 18:38 #3 by Grimkjell Eirson (BillHannings)
Replied by Grimkjell Eirson (BillHannings) on topic Visagalis
Hjolda, friends! I can give you both some information. The priests of Visagalis have been in the proper both this moon and the moon before as well, at least briefly. My brother spoke with Father Lazarus at length, or so I understand.

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11 Mar 2014 19:13 #4 by Templar Aldric (Selrik)
Replied by Templar Aldric (Selrik) on topic Visagalis
Do thou happen to know what business they were about, Guardsman? I missed seeing them this month. I was not in the Proper for last month.

It may be illuminating to know their movements.

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11 Mar 2014 19:21 #5 by Dunn Ironwill (JackDimms)
Replied by Dunn Ironwill (JackDimms) on topic Visagalis
I was at a sermon and it seems these followers are coming to us in peace. Heresy is a big word to be throwing around Razael. We are in an age where Necromancy has become legal..... This is despicable. I guess though if the king orders us to turn a blind eye to such dark powers then we must turn a blind eye to these followers. I am not happy about this, matter of fact if I could I would kill every necromancer I come into contact with, take their heads, and leave them all on pikes in front of the Proper in order to ward off any of these witches who decide they wish to come to Travance.

Sadly I can not. We are in a confusing age Father. We are in a time where those who had an idea who they are now question themselves. Where angels fall from the heavens. Where the lines of good and evil are blurred beyond all of our wildest dreams. I think we need to truly figure out who is friend and who is foe. Hopefully at the end of it all, I hope to have a lot of friends who will stand by me.

Signed, With Truth,
Jack Dimms.



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11 Mar 2014 19:57 #6 by Atrus (Atrus)
Replied by Atrus (Atrus) on topic Visagalis
Nothing has changed Aldric, this should have been easily divined by any keen observer who is in touch with any of the Gods. Your lack of second sight does not speak well to your claims of Prophesy. There are few heretics in the way that is understood by your Church. There have been no new developments, things are as they have been, you've only just begun to see the beginning changes of this Age.

A reformation is upon us, a metamorphosis of the Divine. The understandings of the ideals and the roles of the Gods, must be realized. The Ascended War may not be waging, but the struggle and the conflict between light and shadow continues on. Without darkness light has no meaning, and it is the very light which so many cling to that creates the shadows around us. Both Pantheons mutually justify the existence of each other. One cannot serve one God without serving the others of that Pantheon, and by serving one Pantheon, one serves the ideals of their counterpart.

At the end of the last Age, the ideals-the true ideals of the Gods became lost to so many of their followers. So many on each side misrepresented their own interests. Those of "faith," caught in their zeal, lost sight of their purposes; the Gods, their ideals so overly corrupted through zealotry and so overly represented lost perspective, and this allowed Xualla to bring all of the Prime Material, and the Astral Realm to its knees. The truly heretical are those like Xualla, and what he stands for.

If a world of complete and utter darkness were to ever exist, the existence of the Dark Gods would become inconsequential. In a world of perfect light, the Gods of the Light Pantheon would become unnecessary, and their roles meaningless. These scenarios can never come to pass on Arawyn.

One loves the light of day because they fear what may be found in the darkness of night. But we cannot have day without night, and it is only through the existence of light that there is any shadow.

Razeal speaks for himself and only for himself, his understanding is as limited as yours. You and your church are simply just late to the soiree. True prophets do not require Angels to deliver messages of what is clear and bright as day to the truly awakened.

If you are up for more tutelage I am always taking on new students.

~Atrus
"Only those who have endured the greatest suffering can become the greatest people."



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11 Mar 2014 20:01 #7 by Templar Aldric (Selrik)
Replied by Templar Aldric (Selrik) on topic Visagalis
Jack, and to whomever else is confused by this;

The definition of Good and Evil has not blurred. They are the same as they always have been. Legality has nothing to do with Morality. What the Kingdom has done is not up for comment, but as to it turning a blind eye, now more than ever before that is not true. Our eyes must now be even more open to the actions of others around us. The temptation to fall towards dark acts has never been greater, nor has the depths to which a misguided soul can sink. There are worse things afoot than even the Dark Gods and with this change in policy many may mistakenly conclude, as thee do, that such vile entities are now tolerated. They are not.

In the end friend and foe is the same as always, though we still squabble over this religion or that. Dark and Light no longer war by proxy in the Heavens, distant from us but sometimes affecting us when we are drawn into the Eternal War. Now without the Battlefield to wage this war, and its soldiers without orders, it is left for us all to fight the conflict, not with swords or spells, but within our souls. The confusion is an illusion, Jack. It is borne of dependence on the Heavens to settle the issue, and now that they are quiet we think we are bereft of guidance. It is not so.

The guidance ye seek is here, in the tenets of the faiths the Gods left us. In the songs of heroism that the Bards still sing. In the poems writ of epic battles and salvation gained by legendary champions.

Now that the divine are quiet,
'tis time our Voices lift the Battle Cry.
Our arms to loft the Standard high!
Our hearts to beat the cadence drum.
Our friends to form the Line.

The Battlefield was always beneath thine feet. Open thine eyes, and march towards your Foe. To the mirror then Jack, gaze at the new Campaign. For thine Foe is looking back at thee every day, from every pool of water, every shard of reflective glass, and every polished piece of metal. Waging this battle means winning a far greater prize than any clod of earth, treasure or title imaginable. To War!

Templar Aldric
Champion Fisherman of Amanthyre
Prophet of the Holy Light
Templar of Valos



"The sacred writings are quite specific on the subject of killing, but are a bit fuzzier on the topic of kneecaps."

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11 Mar 2014 20:08 #8 by Templar Aldric (Selrik)
Replied by Templar Aldric (Selrik) on topic Visagalis
Its seems that lack of Knowledge is not just my curse, Atrus.

Thou dost not know me. Though thee judge me like thee do. I will tend my faith and convictions as I best can, and I will ask thee to do the same for thine own. For I only answer to my Church and Valos, I know not who thou art answering to, but I assume tis the same for thee.

As to the title I bear, it is an Order within the Church, but I do believe thou art ignorant of that fact. It means merely that I counsel and advise, not that I have a prophetic gift. Mayhaps it is best thee learn more before commenting.

As for tutelage, I can make some creative suggestions where thee can place that offer. None of which are polite. Arrogance can only be ignored and borne by those who suffer it in others. Thus, seek me not.

Templar Aldric
Champion Fisherman of Amanthyre
Prophet of the Holy Light
Templar of Valos



"The sacred writings are quite specific on the subject of killing, but are a bit fuzzier on the topic of kneecaps."

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11 Mar 2014 20:25 #9 by Dunn Ironwill (JackDimms)
Replied by Dunn Ironwill (JackDimms) on topic Visagalis
Aldric, to your last posting. Would one of those people be me? I'd rather you'd just be frank. In any case. I don't feel as if I'm my own enemy. We haven't spoken since January but I have made many strides since we last saw each other.

In any case, all of this religious banter has started to make my head hurt. I need some ale. And some bacon. And maybe some cake. Ugh, now I'm really hungry. Okay...I'm do...

(Frosting stains, grease stains, and ale stains followed by a J.D. written in some cake frosting.)



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11 Mar 2014 20:27 #10 by Kuo Kun (Kuo Kun)
Replied by Kuo Kun (Kuo Kun) on topic Visagalis
Master (or is it Mistress?) Visagalis ought to be treated politely when he (or she?) visits. Even though they're not a relative, it wouldn't do to seem rude to strangers.

After all, if your god was wandering around, wouldn't you like her to be well-received wherever she goes?


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11 Mar 2014 20:31 #11 by Templar Aldric (Selrik)
Replied by Templar Aldric (Selrik) on topic Visagalis
I have noticed the strides thou hast made Jack. It is somewhat refreshing to see someone reverse their course as thee hath.

I am telling thee where the battle lies. I am not speaking ill of thee, and merely mean that the war now is waged within ourselves. I do not focus on thee, I too must wage this war as everyone does. I hope to see thee battle well and defeat the darkness inside. I will be the first to praise the hero thou wilst become. Surround thineself with others waging this battle, help them as I do, and we will win together.

Templar Aldric
Champion Fisherman of Amanthyre
Prophet of the Holy Light
Templar of Valos



"The sacred writings are quite specific on the subject of killing, but are a bit fuzzier on the topic of kneecaps."

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11 Mar 2014 20:38 #12 by Gabrian Grottings (E.B)
Replied by Gabrian Grottings (E.B) on topic Visagalis
Dear Alric.

I do not understand the workings of a church and its faithful, and I hope that you can, on this occasion, overlook my personal shortcomings in this area.

I do, on the other hand, understand that the letter of the law is straight forward and that those who disobey it- willfully or unknowingly- are guilty of committing a crime and are to be punished. Unless it has been otherwise rescinded by the King, I do not remember hearing it is legal to persecute a citizen of the realm for their religious beliefs, so long as those beliefs don't break the law.

I must ask, do you speak for all of your Church when you write "Legality has nothing to do with Mortality...What the Kingdom has done is not up for comment..." and your later declaration of war on lawful subjects of the Kingdom, or are you just speaking for yourself?

Mind you, I am not threatening or making accusations. I am simply trying to clarify your most recent writings so that, if the time ever should arise that I am asked by the Guards and law-keepers of this realm to ask questions, I will have the proper letters of confession in order. Thank you for your co-operation and for taking the time to clearly explain your intentions of whether you are or are not publicly stating you plan to willfully break the laws of this land.


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11 Mar 2014 20:45 #13 by Templar Aldric (Selrik)
Replied by Templar Aldric (Selrik) on topic Visagalis
The Law is not up for comment, because it is the Law and the King's will. I intend to comply with the Law as I urge everyone to do. Perhaps before we speak further, look again upon my words. I think thou art mistaken in what thou think I wrote.

If thou read my words, carefully, this time, I make no attempt to incite any action against anyone. I told Jack to fight the darkness within himself.

Templar Aldric
Champion Fisherman of Amanthyre
Prophet of the Holy Light
Templar of Valos



"The sacred writings are quite specific on the subject of killing, but are a bit fuzzier on the topic of kneecaps."

OOG - David McCormick.
11 Mar 2014 21:00 - 11 Mar 2014 21:16 #14 by Gabrian Grottings (E.B)
Replied by Gabrian Grottings (E.B) on topic Visagalis
Ah, I see. Thank you for clarifying.
I hope you can forgive me my limitations in this regard- the vague metaphors and diaphanous allusions so commonly used in religious speech are somewhat wasted on me. They leave so much to be interpreted and as you can see, I take these things most literally; it is a sad fact of my job that I am required to cultivate a somewhat suspicious nature. But still, a man must eat, and while I love my books, they do not provide enough coin for me to cover my expenses. Of course, you understand. After all, it is the ineffable plight of man to see eye to eye and know what's on each other's mind.

Perhaps, some time in the future, we could meet, talk, and you could educate me in the workings of your specific church. I'll buy drinks, my treat, and I won't take no for an answer.

I have all sorts of questions to ask you.

*Tacked on*

PS: I am very glad you've decided not to break the law. It saves us from all sorts of messiness.


Eli
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Last edit: 11 Mar 2014 21:16 by Gabrian Grottings (E.B).
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11 Mar 2014 21:12 #15 by Atrus (Atrus)
Replied by Atrus (Atrus) on topic Visagalis
Your confusion is not unexpected Aldric, those who stare into the light for too long often become blinded by it.

I write of things as they were, and as they have come to pass, and as they will be. This is a time of change. All around us, we can see. Lores and abilities of the first age are realized, the weave is repaired, the prime material was on the verge of collapse, the Gods themselves have decreed at least an armistice of the Ascended War. The champions of "good" have brought about more ruin to this town than those of "evil."

There has been a fundamental misunderstanding of tenets and a pathetic display of the Gods in many instances by the faithful. The church refers to their followers as "sheep," because sheep are far easier to control than free-thinking individuals. I certainly do not answer to such as they.

I write now in response to a meeting that was asked to occur, regarding Visagalis. And because Razael has been the loudest proponent of certain ideologies, that he himself fails to grasp. I do not wish to see him further besmirch the Gods in his mockery of faith. He does not speak for us.

As for the darkness within, well, one cannot be whole without embracing that which lives within themselves, to embrace that darkness without being fully steeped in it is to more fully become what you are meant to. To attain this is to attain freedom. These are lessons which your church refuses to teach, as they would rather have everyone bow and scrape and kow tow to them.

"The Heresy of Visagalis," this sounds more like a crisis of faith. Is the faith of those in Travance so weak as to be shaken by this? Apparently for some, it is.

~Atrus
"Only those who have endured the greatest suffering can become the greatest people."



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11 Mar 2014 21:32 - 11 Mar 2014 21:33 #16 by Templar Aldric (Selrik)
Replied by Templar Aldric (Selrik) on topic Visagalis
Master DuMourn,

I would love the chance to discuss any matter thee wish. It is one of my passions to discuss theological topics, and the reason for my calling. I can be frequently found doing just that in the Tavern of the Proper, Corner Stool. I will scrutinize the allusions I use more carefully to avoid confusion in future, thank thee for pointing it out. On the Law, I never 'decided' to keep the Law. I serve Valos. Law is one of his tenets and I would gladly discuss how that would make me acting outside the Law difficult, at best.

Until we meet then,

P.S. Atrus, thine words are not even being read, I wish no discourse with someone so single minded, it tends to get messy. I will point back to my words again, then thee canst read them, and realize thou art in the wrong. No more will I say to thee.

Templar Aldric
Champion Fisherman of Amanthyre
Prophet of the Holy Light
Templar of Valos



"The sacred writings are quite specific on the subject of killing, but are a bit fuzzier on the topic of kneecaps."

OOG - David McCormick.
Last edit: 11 Mar 2014 21:33 by Templar Aldric (Selrik).
11 Mar 2014 22:25 #17 by Gabrian Grottings (E.B)
Replied by Gabrian Grottings (E.B) on topic Visagalis
It is DuMourne, with an "E" Mr. Alric.

I would urge you to be careful though. While you and your like minded followers ascribe to a belief system that supports upholding the law does not mean you embody it.

But you can explain all this to me over a couple of drinks at a later time.


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11 Mar 2014 22:28 #18 by Caldor Eirson (Caldor)
Replied by Caldor Eirson (Caldor) on topic Visagalis
To follow up from what my brother has said, I have indeed spoken at length with Lazurus. I have spent more time speaking with Brother John, who was murdered for his belief this past moon.

Caldor

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11 Mar 2014 23:53 #19 by Templar Aldric (Selrik)
Replied by Templar Aldric (Selrik) on topic Visagalis
Then could thee share their activities with us, then Caldor? I may not agree with their version of things, but I am still interested in what they are saying.

I had heard about one of the Clergy of Visagalis being slain, which led to the confrontation later that month. We have already communicated regret over that incident from what I understand. Our Priests have had extensive conversations with Father Lazarus and those conversations form the basis of what I know of this religion.

Templar Aldric
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Prophet of the Holy Light
Templar of Valos



"The sacred writings are quite specific on the subject of killing, but are a bit fuzzier on the topic of kneecaps."

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12 Mar 2014 00:12 #20 by Caldor Eirson (Caldor)
Replied by Caldor Eirson (Caldor) on topic Visagalis
Brother John was returning with answers to my questions concerning their thoughts on the Role of Arawyn in their faith and/or the relationship between Arawyn and Visigalis. This was a different murder. I doubt a murder committed Sunday at 2 was the basis for the prior confrontation. I still have a lot of questions about their faith as well, and do not agree with much of what they have to say, but I am concerned if our townsfolk are killing them over their faith.

The only activities of theirs I am regularly aware of is spreading the word of their god and tending to the poor. Was there any activity you had a question about in specific?

Caldor

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Q: How many people does it take to teach a barbarian how to read?
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12 Mar 2014 00:16 #21 by Razael Seiryn (Razael Seiryn)
Replied by Razael Seiryn (Razael Seiryn) on topic Visagalis
To the proverbial bees nest,

It's amazing how a few choice words can get the creative juices flowing. Some interesting details have come up, but very little about the actual church of Visagalis. If one of them was murdered; is there any more information as to how or why? Are you certain it was due to faith related incidences not simply for one persons' own moral misgivings. Many people have many enemies for many reasons after all.

Make it clear, I speak for myself, and my representation of teachings; and the lore I have learned, ancient or otherwise from the scriptures of my Goddess. In the event that the wishes of the Gods have changed in time, that would change the text and the teachings of the Gods absolutely. I just know there are more than a few agitated priests, some of which I am affiliated with others whom I am not who want to see those who are utilizing the Domain of Suffering and the deserters of the faith strung from trees. There will be a time where these decisions are made by individuals. All I know is, every instance I have ever seen of another being attempting to take Agaura's power has ended violently.

Dark Chroniclerites, in my presence, have summoned an Avatar of Agaura in the past. They worshipped a demon and that demon used an artifact to steal the power of the gods and emulate them. With the new changing of the world, this may be different; I can assure you though: Sir Archer VanZant (Spelling forgiven) made sure that every single of them was executed, clergy or otherwise, under the law of the land and title of nobility. That Avatar also, went berserk, declared heresy and attempted to murder those affiliated with its summoning. The words it used in my recollection, paraphrased closely: "Those who would defile the powers of Agaura shall be made to know true suffering."

I wonder if Valos would feel the same way about his powers being stolen, and his followers taken by demons. Then again, he might just call them heretics and burn them as well. Neither side abides traitors. I just know I saw way more followers of Visagalis utilizing the domains of the Light Gods than the Dark. I'd watch your congregations closely; Mine are growing. Yours most certainly will be shrinking.

Razael Seiryn

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12 Mar 2014 00:35 #22 by Daniel McKraegar (Daniel McKraegar)
Replied by Daniel McKraegar (Daniel McKraegar) on topic Visagalis
Archer Van Zandt is a squire, not a knight.

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12 Mar 2014 00:45 #23 by Gabrian Grottings (E.B)
Replied by Gabrian Grottings (E.B) on topic Visagalis
Razberry,

The law has been broken and a crime has been committed. It must be addressed. I would urge you to set aside your religious differences with those of the other faiths and to cease and desist from antagonizing their followers. Anything less would be inefficient at this time.

The Law remains unbiased by whatever theological structure you ascribe to. "Light", "Dark", "Good" or "Evil", the perpetrator(s) of these crimes should be brought in, proven guilty, and punished for their transgressions. That is a goal that all theologies and all civilians should be able to agree upon and work towards. I'm not talking mob justice- too often people pull steel and ask questions after the bodies have hit the ground.

I'm talking proper legal etiquette be followed and proper legal redress pursued for these murders.


Eli
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12 Mar 2014 00:56 #24 by Templar Aldric (Selrik)
Replied by Templar Aldric (Selrik) on topic Visagalis
I had not heard of a second murder. Do thee know who did this?

I had no specific questions regarding their activity. I know that they are preaching, and their preaching attempts to say things that are not true about my religion, so its more complex than simply letting people do as they want. But, murder is never an answer for disagreement.

Templar Aldric
Champion Fisherman of Amanthyre
Prophet of the Holy Light
Templar of Valos



"The sacred writings are quite specific on the subject of killing, but are a bit fuzzier on the topic of kneecaps."

OOG - David McCormick.
12 Mar 2014 06:42 #25 by Caldor Eirson (Caldor)
Replied by Caldor Eirson (Caldor) on topic Visagalis
Razael,

The relevant authorities have been told what happened. I use the term murder because it involved being lured behind the inn, paralyzed and then told something before being struck down. I use the phrase "for his faith" because of the words said to him before he was killed. I am not a guard, a noble or otherwise involved in the law, so I do not know any details aside from what Brother John told me.

As to what Brother John came to tell me, he spoke of a faction within the faith who is coming to believe that Visigalis and Arawyn are one and the same.

Caldor

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12 Mar 2014 08:01 #26 by Dunn Ironwill (JackDimms)
Replied by Dunn Ironwill (JackDimms) on topic Visagalis
All this talk of murder and religion when all of us could be eating bacon and drinking ale. There is so much more to do! Leave the crimes to the guards focus on your own glory and honor!

(Signed with a J.D. written in cake frosting.)



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12 Mar 2014 14:04 #27 by Razael Seiryn (Razael Seiryn)
Replied by Razael Seiryn (Razael Seiryn) on topic Visagalis
Aldric,

We are in agreement. Going around murdering people serves nothing but to undermine the authority of the proper. Life is a precious gift and there is potential from it; The forces of Visagalis have made themselves an enemy once, and hid behind two separate masks. One, a cleric, who tried to take what he wanted by force; and Two, a priest, a voice of reason trying to implore through manipulation that their cult was legitimate and needed aid. I'm simply saying, what if the whole thing was a ruse. If the Cleric had gotten what he wanted there was no guarantee that they wouldn't have rejoined forces immediately afterwards. With the cleric dead, then Lazarus was free to rule the entire order himself.

Things are never so simple as they seem. The cult of Visagalis wants something in the proper, and simply because one tomb doesn't have it; doesn't mean it still isn't around. The next time they pull something like that, people need to be prepared to not give second chances. I feel we are being manipulated; they are playing on the compassion of others and are setting up something far more sinister in the long term.

Razael Seiryn

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