Alchemists of Travance.

Good day to you all, Dunn Ironwil here with a bit of an idea. You see last moon I spoke to Rudolf and he and I were tossing around an idea of an Alchemist Guild. With all the influx of new scientific minds as well as the whole homunculi business, I believe it could be a grand idea to say the least! So being that we are all men and women of science I figured we could debate the pros and cons of the idea before seeing if we'd like to move forward.

First off, I would like to state the major pro with all of this, information! With all of our minds crammed into one guild, the possibilities for research or possibly discovering something new could be absolutely endless! Not to mention for the betterment of Travance as a whole. We could find a way to help the farmers, the smiths, we could even make sure that when the Travancian forces go out to fight something terribly dangerous, that they are well stocked with things to keep them safe!

Secondly, as newly arriving in town, I find that essences are well.... a tad difficult to find as I am not one to find myself on any battlefield. So to those who also don't, this can be a good way for us to keep stocked up on the things we need at all times!

Thirdly, with this passing moon I got up close and personal with a few humonculi and I can say this. We as alchemists should stand firm in defense of our science and band together in order to show the would be god that we will not take such defilement of our craft!

So that is what I have now. I look forward to a respectful and spirited debate as to why or why not we should begin working on starting a guild!

Signed,
Dunn Ironwil.

I don't understand why you consider the homunculi a defilement of our craft. If Maker wasn't using his creations to attack the town, there'd be no issue with what he's doing.

Even more importantly, alchemy at it's highest level is as much mysticism as it is scientific. By trying to think in only scientific terms you'll limit your understanding and growth. And that is the biggest issue with a formal academy. It would set a curriculum. In such a rigid environment, free thought often stifles and research becomes stale. It is why I left my formal schooling at a young age and never returned.

It does have the benefit of being able to coordinate supply of alchemicals to lands and the proper allocation of resources to where they are needed. And this is wonderful for those alchemists who are looking for work. But I already have my hands full with different duties and I'm sure many of the other long established alchemists in Travance feel the same.

Zelritch,

I feel you have made an excellent point, but you see if we create this, we make the curriculum, we set the rules within the laws of the barony of course, and we dictate how we proceed. Yes the other established alchemist may have their work, but why not use this as a home of sorts to nurture our colleagues so that they are not swept away with the constant evolving tide of Travance? It would be simply easy to just go about your business and remain simply within oneself, but the more established alchemists, you, Meander,, Rudolf, Tycho, all of you could spread your thoughts and ideals into the next generation of science. Unlike me you are all just humans. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but this would be a great way to see that the future of alchemy in Travance is preserved.

Furthermore I include the idea of magic in with science. Magic can be broken down into scientific terms as well and although I have the trait of my kin of not being able to benefit, I'm sure the others who can would very much enjoy a boost of magic in their alchemy.

To also answer your first point, I see it as a defilement because he is using alchemy for his own selfish purposes. He is trying to use the science I love to become something more than what he is, a man of science. He is trying to become a god. I am not one for faith, I think it dilutes more rational minds and keeps ones entrapped in a manner of speaking. But that is my thoughts on the situation and is besides the point of this conversation.

Signed,
Dunn Ironwil

Mr. Ironwil,

While not an alchemist myself - nay, the only alchemy I've performed to date, has been to make myself coffee - and therefore my opinion may have less value here, I would still like to say a few words on the matter.

Why set a curriculum at all? Nothing good in this town ever came from imprisoning the townsmembers' imagination. The more infamous example in my mind happened this time last year, when some men believed there was only one way to solve a particular problem and scorned those who thought outside a certain set of parameters.

The town would indeed benefit from regular meetings of its more-experienced alchemists. However, as Zelretch noted, it may be a hefty task gathering all of them in the same place, at the same time.


-Nalick

Nalick,

You are correct, why limit ourselves? But with my words from my last posting I simply met we can shape and form how we want this to be. It can be free form, or it can be set. This is merely a debate to see if this would be worth investing time.

As to your second point, it would be a hefty task. Yet.... Are we to believe that us alchemists are more busy than let's say a Lord? Or the Count? Or even the High Priest of Andorra? All of these men and women find time to meet with their vassals, their subjects, their flock. How could we not find a mere hour or so to speak with one another?

Signed,
Dunn Ironwil.

Structure is not made to limit, but to guide, to give an idea. If one wishes to go outside of that structure, well, I doubt anyone will write them a writ of detention.

This is not a school. Allow a curriculum for the novice, then allow them to see the world through their eyes as a journeyman.

Food for thought,
Mr. Pierce.

I'm of the opinion a gathering of like minds might be a fine idea. Tea, alchemy, and exchanging ideas. I'm unsure of the necessity for an entire guild, but an even semi-regular gathering of scientific minds sounds lovely and dare I say, fun. Should the other alchemists in town be interested in attempting to schedule such a gathering, I should be most interested in attending.


-Dr. Nigel Whitworth

I am all for tea, alchemy and ideas, I love this plan.
I do want to throw an idea out there right now, just to get us going. This past feast, I assisted with a ritual combining the expertise of arcane energy, druidic power, divine might, and bardic diapason for an increased strength in all four, multiplied by the presence of the others. Why not apply alchemical expertise to other sorts of things? Combine herbal alchemy with druidics or healing, hermetics with psionics, things like that.
Think about it guys.

Just because the experiments started out selfish, doesn't mean the homunculi are a defilement. They grew past his experiments. They're unique.


Your idea for a gathering sounds interesting, even those who are not alchemists could benefit. Perhaps a whole gathering of our more 'scientific' practices would do some good. I know that we have tried explaining the usefulness of Corpse Essences and Syringes prepared with alchemical potions in the past.

**Not Tyros posting**

Mr. Ironwill,

For a man of science, you seem to believe that the creation of life is ‘gods’ domain alone. I understand that you may not fully grasp how this new form of life may occur, but it doesn’t make one a god by proxy. If you have some flower seeds and soil, and you decide to plant the seeds within the soil, and perform the proper maintenance would you not be creating life? The components existed, you just took the proper steps to help them flourish. Do you consider yourself a god because you created life?

Furthermore, if you were to consider the possibility that all life was created by something, then what issue do you have with new life being created? We may be different and you may have met the creator of Homunculi, but it doesn’t make the creation any less magnificent.

The Seneschal spoke briefly about considering Homunculi to be complex organic machines, but not alive. You must then decide what your definition of alive is. We as a species may be incompatible from a physiological stand point, but this shouldn’t define life since many species are similar, yet can be considered vastly different. Consider an animal, such as a monkey compared to your average Kormyrian. In many ways they have similar features; they can both walk on two legs, each have some ability to reason and solve puzzles, yet communication between different races can be strenuous, and Kormyrians have a more likely chance of understanding both races and how to interact with them. Druids may be able to understand them to a greater effect and would agree that they are also alive.

I pose this question to any that are interested: How do you define life?

In the pursuit of prosperity,
Belberith

The first lesson: Alchemy cannot create life, we knew it in the ancient times and even after all my experimentation it turned up only convincing proxies. They may think like the living, but so too do some undead. That doesn't make them anything, but convincing. The soul is one of the only things that cannot be created, and that is exactly what is lacking in general understanding. Even for all the work put into these new homunculi, they were merely more complex than the ones of the past. I tested the limits of their souls, and in the end they too are lacking.
So no, for as much as they are our allies and I would defend them with my life, they are not alive. In the end, the dead stay dead and you cannot create life by anything but said conventional means. Seed, and fertilizer. This is the way it has been, and will always be. When homonculi can create new life through conventional means, then maybe they will begin reclassify them.
I remain unimpressed.

-N. Flamel

On this topic I believe many of us have differing perspectives.

But the homunculi, particularly those of higher tiers, are thinking, reasoning, caring beings.
They feel pain and loss, hope and love. They have wishes and dreams.
That's more than enough for me.
You would label beings abominations simply because of the method of their creation.
Do they not deserve to live in peace among the races of this world?

As regards the original topic of this posting, while I am not an alchemist, I would be greatly interested in any meeting of minds towards further understanding these topics, particularly with the goal of helping the homunculi.

If I may add my opinion on the matter: there is a difference between a guild and school. One seeks to educate, and sometimes indoctrinate, those within. The other is merely a organization of similarly skilled individuals banding together for the benefit of all within.

Oh, another debate? One moment, let me propose an idea: clear another spot on the wall for this. Let me send a couple of notes out and see if we can do this proper and not detract from the original writings.

---
The courier didn't work.
I'm going to clear another section of wall and offer we remove our notes about Homunculi and move them there if that's alright?

The invitation goes to Belberith, Mr. Flamel, and anyone else who seems interested in the topic.

If you don't move them, I'll copy them when I return.

You speak one opinion and the entire conversation seems to have lost the plot. I will not speak any further of the homunculi until I am back within the Proper. If anyone wishes to debate, to argue, to shake their fists angrily at my opinion then be so it...

In any case it seems we do have a topic of first discussion, whether or not we can consider these things.... alive.

I ask that all talk of the previous topic cease so that we alchemist can decide on whether or not we should come together as a guild or simply have meetings over tea, or whiskey, whatever is preferred.

I await other alchemists voice on the matter.

Signed,
Dunn Ironwil.

At the very least I would really like to schedule a time to meet with all you other alchemists, as you have suggested at Dunn. I only just [strike]returned[/strike] arrived in Travance a few months ago, and would like greatly to speak with all of you on your [strike]modern[/strike] views of alchemy. Perhaps I could also provide some create insight on the stones many of you use.

-N. Flamel

Would those who are not alchemists be welcome to attend? I would like to know more.

I'm sure anyone would be able to attend. Shall we set a time and place? What works well for everyone?

Signed,
Dunn Ironwil

My apologies for aiding in the derailment of this topic.
If your meeting is open to all, I would be quite interested in attending as well.
Thank you.

(not Magnus)

How about Sunday morning, so as not to worry about the interruptions that normally come with baronial feasts.


Alexander H.

Though I am in support of the idea of having regular meetings to discuss ideas and new research, I don't know if an actual guild would be prudent. But this is a thing that may be discussed at said meetings.

And Sunday morning would be a good time for me, it is the only time this moon I will be in the proper.

- I. Solvei

Though I cannot guarantee my presence, I shall certainly make an effort to be there should this be scheduled. Provided I am not once again distracted by experiments.


-Dr. Nigel Whitworth

As long as this guild/academy/whatever does not mandate membership of all Travancian alchemists, I will not oppose its formation at this time. I do not think it the best course of action, but I've already said my part.

Sundays I am usually doing my Baronial paperwork, but can make an attempt at rescheduling if this is meeting is to actually take place.

Sunday morning would work for me. I'll be on hand more for observational and educational purposes; although, if anyone needs or wants arcane encouragement, I could lend a hand -- or a voice, rather.

-Nalick

So then! How does 10 or half past in the morning Sunday work for everyone? We will meet in the Inn over coffee at the big table.

Signed,
Dunn Ironwil.

Sounds early. Can we make it closer to 11 bells?

-N. Flamel

As we grow closer to coming feast I feel like I have neglected to set anything down! My apologies everyone! So yes, 11 bells in the morning is our meeting time. I figured at the in at the big table would be the best place for us? Furthermore I will set in the topics of discussion so far we have two.

1. Should the alchemists become a guild?

2. Do we consider the homunculi alive?

On top of that, I do not wish for this to become a crowd of emotion. This is a scientific debate, present evidence to your belief, but do not insult anyone. This I assume will be the conversation that has us decide all together in the future of how we treat these creations in the future.

I will add one more thing to this. I am willing to do it, but I'd prefer to name a speaker who will control the flow of the conversation and make sure everyone has their turn to speak.

Signed,
Dunn Ironwil

I don't think anyone is going to argue that the homunculi are by all definitions "alive" - same as a tree or a possum. Isn't the more important question regarding their personhood? If they are to be qualified among humans, elves, fae-kin, and goblinoids as "people"?

The four True Homunculi were willing to give their lives to defend me. They show compassion and a desire for understanding that grows every day. Though they may be called childlike, or do not behave in a way that you are necessarily used to, that is far more than I can say for some humans, elves, faerie kin, and goblinoids.