Bane and Detection Abilities

Hello!

My question is in specific reference to True Sight but can also apply to anyone who has the ability to do bane and detection skills.

Bane does not specify that it has to be on a damaging or status effect skill. With Critical Spell (or anything else that allows me to make my skills bane) would I be able to use true sight as Bane in order to break the 1 min immunity vs detection abilities. I figure it wouldn't break the initial detection which they called camouflage or obscurement on, but if they are under the 1 minute following the call of that skill, can I Bane True Sight in order to see through it (assuming they don't call another defense)?

Bane damage, which is typically specific to a creature or creature type, does not deal any additional effects, but the target may never be resistant, highly resistant, or immune to any part of the attack, even if a skill possessed by the target would cause him to reduce the damage taken.

Critical Spell
This ability reduces the casting time of spell attacks used by the character against targets suffering the effect of one of her abilities by one second, to a minimum of one. Additionally, these spells deal ​Bane ​damage.

True Sight
This ability allows the character to detect a concealed target within twenty-five feet.
Spell (Rank III), Attack (Naming), Concealment(Detection)

Camouflage
This ability defends the character from a Concealment (Detection) ability and renders the character Immune versus ​ Concealment (Detection) ​skills for one minute or until she takes action affecting another being.
Periodic, Reaction (Defense)

Yes. Bane will always bypass immunities. So if you have that option, it will work but the target, of course, can still defend that.

To counterpoint Rachael, the description of Bane DOES specifically say "damage." It was my understanding that unless an ability that causes a status effect does also cause damage, Bane does not apply (i.e You cannot call Bane on a spell that does not cause damage). If this is not the case, the description of Bane needs to be changed to avoid future confusion.

Would using a Casting Phokus of a type the concealed creature would be weak to allow us to call the True Sight as Bane?

If they use this method can you defend with camouflage? Or do you need a different type of defense?

Example:

Person A: *uses stealth*
Person B: *keen senses*
Person A: *camouflage*
Person C: *Bane True Sight*

Can person A just call another camouflage?

To counterpoint Rachael, the description of Bane DOES specifically say "damage." It was my understanding that unless an ability that causes a status effect does also cause damage, Bane does not apply (i.e You cannot call Bane on a spell that does not cause damage). If this is not the case, the description of Bane needs to be changed to avoid future confusion.

You may always add damage types to attacks if you are capable of delivering the attack with that damage type. For example if you are using a Copper sword, you can call "Stunning Blow Fire," which would be Bane against a creature weak to Fire. In the case of Critical Spell I will agree that the wording is a little vague and will adjust it to be more clear for the next version of the rulebook.

Would using a Casting Phokus of a type the concealed creature would be weak to allow us to call the True Sight as Bane?

No, because True Sight does not benefit from aspected damage.

If they use this method can you defend with camouflage? Or do you need a different type of defense?

Example:

Person A: *uses stealth*
Person B: *keen senses*
Person A: *camouflage*
Person C: *Bane True Sight*

Can person A just call another camouflage?

Yes, Camouflage is still a valid defense even against Bane effects; Bane would pierce the granted immunity, but if you defend the Bane True Sight, the immunity is still active for the full minute or until Camouflage otherwise ends.

These rulings seem contradictory, could you elaborate?

Let's say Creature is Weak to Fire.
I have a Copper Sword and a Copper Casting Phokus, and thus am able to deal melee and metaphysical Fire damage.
I can use the Copper Sword to attack Creature with Stunning Blow Fire.
I cannot use the Copper Casting Phokus to attack concealed Creature with True Sight Fire.

Is that correct?

This is because of how casting phokus works compared to weapons. Casting Phokus is not used to deliver spells. However, it allows you to use the damage type with spells that deal aspected damage while you are wielding it.

On the other hand, when you are using a sword that swings for Fire damage and you deliver an attack through it, you are hitting the enemy with a Fire sword regardless of the effect.