Removal of Piety and Related Rules Changes

Piety was a system in the game that in theory should have worked well, but for whatever reasons over the last eleven years proved to be difficult at best to keep up with. We have removed the Piety system from the game. Below are all of the changes that needed to be made as a result. While I realize that some of you may lament the loss of this game statistic, I ask you to please only post any clarifications that you may need. Thanks!

---

- Reference to Piety Removed

- Change Smite to the Following:
Smite (Periodic)
The Cleric delivers an attack that does Divine Damage double their normal base damage to an opponent plus 5. If the Cleric is using her deity's holy weapon, she instead deals triple their normal base damage to an opponent plus 5. This attack can at no time exceed 40 damage.

- Change Malediction to the Following:
Malediction (Continuous)
This skill allows a character to use her holy symbol to cut off an opponent’s connection to her deity. To use this skill, the character must affix her holy symbol to the opponent, who must be rendered immobile by some means. She is unable to cast prayers or utilize any divine abilities for as long as the character’s holy symbol remains affixed.

- Change Wield Faith to the Following:
Wield Faith (Continuous)
This skill allows a character to use her holy symbol as a weapon against undead or extra-planar creatures of the opposing alignment of her deity; servants of neutral gods can only use this skill against undead. To use this skill, the character must hold her holy symbol, with nothing else encumbering her hand and arm, before her and in the direction of the opponent, who must be within ten feet of her. If the creature is susceptible to Wield Faith it must cower in fear and pain before the holy symbol, and attempt to retreat to a safe distance from it. The opponent cannot take any offensive action against the character as long as she remains within the range of this skill, and as long as the character takes no action other than concentrating; the character can move at a heel-to-toe pace while maintaining concentration. An opponent that is not specifically susceptible to Wield Faith is unaffected by this skill.

- Change Crusade to the Following:
Crusade (Event-Based)
This skill allows a cleric to call divine power to strengthen her in her cause. When used, this skill bestows the cleric with fifty additional body points, fifty additional faith points, and one use of the skill "Greater Wield Faith". These bonuses last for the duration of the battle, or until the cleric is rendered unconscious, whichever comes first.

- Change Desecrating Altar rules to:
Desecrating an altar of font renders it useless and can reduce the value of its materials to virtually nothing, depending on how much is looted. An altar takes 10x the rank of the altar in minutes to desecrate, and the presence of someone with the ability to cast that rank or higher prayers (5th Rank Altars would require someone with a higher list).  If the process is uninterrupted, after the time is spent, the structure is reduced in rank by one, and the looters may recover valuables equal to 1/4 the cost of obtaining that rank (i.e. - if it takes 400 Gold to go from a Rank 4 to a Rank 5, 100 gold can be recovered when it is dropped from 5th back to 4th).

[size=14pt]Loosing Favor with your God[/size]
Any RP marshal or Rules marshal can make a report of inappropriate conduct by a religions character; this report must be written and must be submitted to the Atmosphere Officer and the Director. Under the advisement of the Atmosphere Officer, the Director than decides if the player should receive a penalty. If the incident is decided to be a minor infraction, the character will receive a lesser penalty. If the incident is decided to be a major infraction, than the character will receive a greater penalty. There are four degrees of penalties; the worst any religious character can ever get is the fourth degree. Those who attain greater penalties, also attain the lesser equivalent by default. What degree of penalty a character receives depends on evaluation of each individual incident.

Atonement is a matter of time and faithful service, nothing more. During this time however, if another infraction takes place, than you will advance to a more severe degree of Penalty and subsequently the duration is reset to the new duration.

Lesser Penalties:
1st Degree: -15FP for 3 months
2nd Degree: -30FP for 4 months
3rd Degree: -45FP for 5 months
4th Degree: -60FP for 6 months

Greater Penalties:
- The Ceremony List counts as the Highest possible rank, followed by the Templar list, and than rank 4 - 1 prayer.
- Greater Penalties have a minimum duration. Characters must display a strong and active, voluntary initiative to repent for their wrongdoings. Director may extend duration indefinitely until it is felt that the character has properly repented.
1st Degree: Loss of Highest Rank known, Malediction for a min of 6 months
2nd Degree: Loss of Two Highest Rank known, Wield Faith for a min of 6 months
3rd Degree: Loss of Three Highest Rank Known, Mass, Holy Strike for a min of 12 months
4th Degree: Loss of Four Highest Rank known, Benediction, Smite - Permanent Loss

[size=14pt]
Higher List Alterations[/size]

The following changes effect Templar
- Replace "Double Power Wield Faith" with "Greater Wield Faith: Same build cost, maximum and usage.
This skill work as the skill "Wield Faith" accept it will have effect on greater beings. This skill is periodic and can be defended against.

The following changes effect Ceremonies
- Add "Greater Wield Faith" Same details as Templar ability.

- Ceremony of Unbreakable Faith re-worded to the following:
When this ceremony is cast, it strengthens an altar to take twice as long to desecrate.

- Ceremony of Lending Faith re-worded to the following:
This ceremony allows the priest to take a small item and imbue it with their faith. The item will allow a follower of that religion to use
the item and use the skill “wield faith”. Note that the religion must be written on the users character card for this to work, furthermore, it is not good enough to worship the same type of deity (i.e. good or evil), but rather it must be the specific deity. At the time of casting, the item can also have one prayer embedded within it for future use. The prayer replenishes periodically. The use of the skill wield faith is continuous. The item will revert back to its non ceremonial form if it is not made permanent by the end of the duration.

So now that April Fool's Day is over, is this post still legitimate? Has the mechanic behind Piety been removed?

My two cents is simply that I feel piety has always had some kind of use, particularly for clerics.  While I understand its minimal usage overall, it was more or less the only reason for a player to pick up the cleric list instead of the priest list if they already had a combat class, or even Cleric AND Priest together.

I do agree with the Penalty structure, and feel it should be used more often.  The piety modifier was never really used up to this point that I have seen.

Yes, these are legitimate changes to the rules. Related abilities work as described in the post and I believe are already reflected in the online rulebook.

what would happen if a monster  wield faith's a player?... say generic evil cleric Vs. Celestine?

I find it interesting that a beginning cleric will now be able to wield faith like Br. Aradiel.  I would have thought there would be at least a character level function.  As it now stands, there is also no difference between a Skeletal Champion's ability to withstand faith and a lesser skeleton's, unless I am missing something here.

It seems, if one wanted to be gamey, that taking the cleric profession would, at the cost of 10 build, allow one to turn all non-ritual undead equally. 

<<The following changes effect Templar
- Replace "Double Power Wield Faith" with "Greater Wield Faith: Same build cost, maximum and usage.
This skill work as the skill "Wield Faith" accept it will have effect on greater beings. This skill is periodic and can be defended against.

The following changes effect Ceremonies
- Add "Greater Wield Faith" Same details as Templar ability.>>

Is the reference to Divine Ceremonies, a list to which I have access?

If so, follow up questions to be posted.

Alex, go take another look at the wording of Wield Faith. It describes who it can affect, specifically "undead or extra-planar creatures of the opposing alignment of her deity" and then it goes further to say "An opponent that is not specifically susceptible to Wield Faith is unaffected by this skill." I think those statements should cover your question.

Charlie, you may want to note that no where does it categorize which creatures are affected by which kind of wield faith. It is per the individual creature's stats. The phrase "greater beings" is simply intended to show that a creature that requires Greater Wield faith to be affected has more divine resistance to such an attempt to drive it back.

To your second comment: yes, it has been added to your higher list.

My two cents is simply that I feel piety has always had some kind of use, particularly for clerics.  While I understand its minimal usage overall, it was more or less the only reason for a player to pick up the cleric list instead of the priest list if they already had a combat class, or even Cleric AND Priest together.

False.

You need Cleric to pick up Templar. Simply having Priest+Warrior no longer qualifies you for it.

My two cents is simply that I feel piety has always had some kind of use, particularly for clerics.  While I understand its minimal usage overall, it was more or less the only reason for a player to pick up the cleric list instead of the priest list if they already had a combat class, or even Cleric AND Priest together.

False.

You need Cleric to pick up Templar. Simply having Priest+Warrior no longer qualifies you for it.

Also, lists aren't really designed with the idea of multiclassing in mind. Saying that it's useless to take Cleric instead of Priest if you're already a combat class is like saying it's useless to take Berserker if you are already a Chaos Warrior. While this may be true, since Berserker and Chaos Warrior share a bunch of skills, it's really a moot point, because lists aren't really designed with multiclassing in mind. That's how I see it anyway.

I have concerns with Wield Faith and Malediction not have a number associated with them now. I think their needs to be a distinction in being able to turn a lesser skeleton vs. being able to turn a regular skeleton and a difference needed to be able to strip a 5th level priest of his powers with malediction and a 20th level cleric. However I see the problem if you use level to drive this because I could be a 20th level warrior pick up priest and wield faith better than the 10th level priest even though he has more "faith skills". Since using level is not a viable solution I think Wield Faith and Malediction must be made into Tag skills that can be defended against with whatever defenses you deem defends you against the greater versions.

I guess they didn't want people weilding faith at the door to people any more.

But seriously. I think this works.

If you see a skeleton, and it grunts. Weild Faith. If you see another skeleton, and it asks for your souls, Greater Weild Faith.

I would like to see the Ceremony of Greater Wield Faith.  Hell, I'd like to know whenit will be taught.

I know what you are going to say, Roy.

I guess they didn't want people weilding faith at the door to people any more.

You haven't been able to wield faith another player for a very long time.

Smite is now useful for those of us who pick up cleric later in their characters life?! fantastic!  Before, I would be doing less than my base weapon damage with a smite.

True rob. For someone who's goal is to become a templar, you are absolutely right.

And alex, I understand where you're coming from too.

I didn't want to come across as whining, I'm just simply trying to look at the removal from a broader aspect.

Aww I liked having piety! I thought it was a fun mechanic to the game.

ah well.

I would like to see the Ceremony of Greater Wield Faith.  Hell, I'd like to know whenit will be taught.

I know what you are going to say, Roy.

My understanding is that it will not be a ceremony, it will be a skill added to Ceremonies as a tag skill, at the same build cost and number of purchases as per templar.

My understanding is that it will not be a ceremony, it will be a skill added to Ceremonies as a tag skill, at the same build cost and number of purchases as per templar.

Quoted for correctness.

I have concerns with Wield Faith and Malediction not have a number associated with them now. I think their needs to be a distinction in being able to turn a lesser skeleton vs. being able to turn a regular skeleton and a difference needed to be able to strip a 5th level priest of his powers with malediction and a 20th level cleric. However I see the problem if you use level to drive this because I could be a 20th level warrior pick up priest and wield faith better than the 10th level priest even though he has more "faith skills". Since using level is not a viable solution I think Wield Faith and Malediction must be made into Tag skills that can be defended against with whatever defenses you deem defends you against the greater versions.

Those concerns are already addressed.  More powerful undead won't be able to be turned by Wield Faith - they will require Greater Wield Faith.  As for Malediction:

To use this skill, the character must affix her holy symbol to the opponent, who must be rendered immobile by some means. She is unable to cast prayers or utilize any divine abilities for as long as the character’s holy symbol remains affixed.

So if sad 20th level target is going to sit there while his 5th level opponent asks him politely to hold still while he affixes this holy symbol to him, he deserves what he gets.  Malediction is not so much as combat-oriented shutdown as a "We've got him down, now let's cut him off while we can so he can't escape" thing.  You still need to take him down first... and remember that most things like Imprison, etc. won't let you target the captive, so you can't use those as the setup.  And nothing is stopping the target from taking the holy symbol off unless they are physically secured first.