Rules Update: Higher Lists available online

With the Career Point changes going into affect, another change will be coming with it.

The Higher Lists that were once kept hidden will be made available on the Online Rulebook, from a Rules Standpoint only.  In-Game information, such as what it takes to earn a list, the role-play behind them, or the lore and secrets of these lists will still be a strictly "Find Out In Game" basis.

The reason for this change in age-old KR tradition is that as the game grows, we simply cannot keep rules that are commonly used secret from the player base.  Skills like Slay, Assassinate, Cripple, etc. are common enough that they need to be documented in a public manner, for PCs and NPCs alike.

Along with the rules for the lists, an overview of how the lists are handled has also been posted.  Please make sure you read this before reading any of the Higher Lists themselves.

Several lists are already up, more will be added over the next 2 weeks.  (Some of them are quite old and need dusting off to bring them into compliance with the current rules - others are just a P.I.T.A to copy onto the site.)

As a quick addendum - some of the lists have references that are slightly out of date - we've been focusing on core rulebook items for the past few years, so some of the higher lists may still have odd references in them.  Please bear with these, as we work on clearing them up.

The majority of the lists are now available online.

Some lists are listed, but not linked in (you can't click on them).  These lists still need some reviewing, and will be activated once outstanding issues have been cleaned up, and the list is ready for public viewing.

Advocates have not been listed, as they are being removed from the game.  All other lists have been listed - if you don't see the list in the Online Rulebook, it doesn't exist.  (i.e. - please don't ask about a list for X profession, which you don't see listed on the site.)

The career point changes have been applied to the new lists, and some formatting changed to make it more presentable on the Website.  The Errata from the Online Rulebook have been applied as well, and removed from the Errata section as they were updated and went live.  No other rules have been changed, with the exception of removing some duplicate wording to shorten up the text (i.e. - redundant examples that took up another paragraph).

Please do NOT nitpick these lists.  Many of them are very old, and in need of serious revision, and the Staff and Marshals are WELL aware of this.  We're focusing on the core rules of the game first, to make sure there is a solid foundation upon which to rebuild the higher lists.

Also, please remember that just because a higher list is listed on the site, does not mean you can open it.  Good Role-Playing is a key factor and prerequisite for opening ANY higher list.

Four more lists - Sith, True Warlock, Sorcery (Black & White), and Master Witch Hunter - have been made available.  Paladin and Anti-Paladin should be along in a few days, pending one last clarification.

Some skills have been altered slightly in the Higher Lists to bring them into compliance with the rest of the current rules.  These changes are hotfixes intended to change the wording, but not the intent, of the skills to fix them when they did not make sense, when they referred to skills that no longer existed in the game, or when they were outside the allowed bounds of higher lists in general.  A list of changes are summarized below:

Master Marksman:
Stealth Shot and Blind Shot now refer to skills as Yellow or Red Headband skills, instead of the specific skill names.

Master Witch Hunter:
Lore: Supernatural is now a normal Lore skill, including becoming 1 build and continuous.
Several skills have had pre-reqs change, both added and removed, as needed to fit current skills in the game (and to logically fit the skills, where needed).

Demon Knight:
"Magic Claw Prof +1" has been renamed "Elemental Claw Prof +1" (since it swings for an element, and not magic...)

Sith:
The old color guidelines have been replaced with a new set, which is published in the basic rules (as it is applied when you learn Spirit of the Dragon).  This will be announced as a separate post.

True Warlock:
Dark Whispers has a maximum of 5 purchases.
Dark Blade swings for Magic instead of Darkness (as Darkness as a damage type was removed from the game).  (Edit: I mistakenly had Decay instead of Magic, this is fixed.   Decay was removed, too...)

Divine Ceremonies:
Two of the failure results previously modified Faith (Peity) Ratings, which are no longer in the game.  They now modify temporary Faith Points for the period.

White Sorcery:
Some of the skills on the Transformations have been updated to the newer Mage spell equivalents, or a reference given where needed.

Regarding Decay damage - I'm an idiot.  I *thought* it had been removed from the game, but it's simply not listed in the appropriate spot (The list of Damage Types).

We're working on sorting this out, and making sure everything is listed in the proper spot.  An update will be made shortly.

My apologies on the Decay thing - it's been added to the official list of damage types, and Dark Blade has been (re)-amended to swing for Decay damage.

A snafu on Sith has been cleared up - prior to being updated, some dragon spirits had a combination element with Magic as well, but specific skills removed the Magic portion when used.  Because this has been changed (and two colors ONLY have Magic now), these clauses have been dropped.

Paladin and Anti-Paladin are now online.  The holdup was mostly that the skills Resist Evil and Resist Good were not the same across all lists - a clarified version has been posted to all six lists (Paladin, Templar, and Tortured Soul, and Anti-Paladin, Dark Templar, and Demon Knight).

This means all the higher lists, except for Advocates, are now online.

Ritual of Corruption has the requirement of the ritual of the puppet (which makes sense and should be there) but there is no ritual of the puppet found anywhere.

It also mentions it as a fifth rank ritual in the description.

Ritual of the Puppet no longer exists, just a case of the ritual text not being totally updated back when sorcery was (also when 5th rank rituals were dropped)

Thank you - I'll begin checking for other issues that have slipped by similar to this one, and run them past James.

We're trying to avoid actually overhauling the lists themselves at the moment, but if there's a "broken link" so to speak (a reference to something else that doesn't exist, or was updated and invalidated the reference), post it here and I'll see about fixing it.

I know that Advocates are removed from the game but I also remember there being a few still around.  Will that be put up so people know what the skills are or are we now the black sheep of KR?

I believe James uses the old fashioned term "red headed stepchildren," Joe.

They rate slightly lower than Divine Ceremonies. 

They rate slightly lower than Divine Ceremonies. 

QQ!

They rate slightly lower than Divine Ceremonies. 

Your just still upset about me owning you in the Disney/Marvel thread

Gavin, you're wrong about puppet. Yes it was removed, and once someone was corrupted (a certain dashing older elf paladin), it was discussed with a group of people all who were very well versed in sorcery rules and all agreed corruption would necessitate the puppet in order for the corrupted person to be able to get their regular self back without having to take a death.

The only reason they got changed is because the listed skills didn't exist, at all, so they were changed to existing ones, rather than leaving them as non-existent skills.

Please do NOT nitpick these lists.  Many of them are very old, and in need of serious revision, and the Staff and Marshals are WELL aware of this.  We're focusing on the core rules of the game first, to make sure there is a solid foundation upon which to rebuild the higher lists.

Regardless of how much it makes sense, the Higher Lists as they are now are not open for debate.  You of all people (Gavin) know the Higher Lists are intended for a serious overhaul in the near future and the skills will stand as they are now (for better or for worse) until we can revise the entire system.  It would be unfair for us to simply revise the lists/skills we feel do not mesh well without revising every higher list to the same degree. 

Fair enough, I will keep it to regular questions and clarification requests then.

A Black Sorcerer who cast the ritual that turns them into a lich gets a skill called "Control Undead Horde"

I may be mistaken, but I can't seem to find any mention of that skill/spell in the online rulebook.

What does it do?  It is listed as having an MP cost.  How is it cast?  With a cost of 3 MP, is it a 3rd rank necromancy spell?  Is it surge casted?

EDIT: IIRC, it used to function like this: Surge Cast, control all non-ritual undead in a 20ft radius of the Lich.  Is that still the case?

I'll check into that one, thank you, Gavin.

Since puppet ritual is no more, how does a corrupted person get changed back? Shouldn't there be something in the white sphere so the person isn't forced to be corrupted for the maximum amount of time the ritual is supposed to last for?

Being curious, but how does a character come about getting skills from the higher list, I know you don't just go up to someone and say "hey teach me slay from the warrior high list"

This should answer your questions:
www.knightrealms.com/index.php?option=co...ew&id=322&Itemid=209

--Sean

Since puppet ritual is no more, how does a corrupted person get changed back? Shouldn't there be something in the white sphere so the person isn't forced to be corrupted for the maximum amount of time the ritual is supposed to last for?

Sure.  Miss three events.  

In all seriousness, and this is a legit question for the RMs, would it be possible for a Ritual of Purity to work 'under' an existing ritual of corruption?  The wording says the target can't be corrupted, it implies that it does little for a target that is currently corrupted.

However, it does offer an alternative (albeit an expensive one) to waiting 3 months or getting killed.  Because honestly, a corruption RP'd properly will ensure that killing you is the only way to stop you.

EDIT: Plus, how freaking cool would that ritual be to RP?

Which is exactly my point. A player shouldn't be left with the options of either being evil and thus likely to get killed or wait three months of not playing your PC (which as a paying consumer of the product would not be my preference).

Errrrrrg.... *head explodes*

This is, ultimately, a HUGE issue that will involve reworking the whole ritual, which is a gateway to the list.  I can't go any further into this at the moment without opening that 55 gallon drum of mutant zombie worms.

Some people may enjoy RPing being corrupted.  Some people may hate it.  If this becomes an issue (It's only ever happened once that I know of, although I am willing to admit I may not know about some), an appeal can be made to James, and Director Fiat always has final say.

Hold off, Gavin.  You're going way above and beyond what we need.

Note to possible confused people:

My pointless posts have been deleted (by me), and the more pertinent (but OT) questions have been moved to the Rules Questions Board.