Misunderstood rules

10 Jan 2010 20:51 #1 by Woolsey Bysmor (Osred)
Misunderstood rules was created by Woolsey Bysmor (Osred)
I feel I need to mention this, since this particular prayer has come up with a similar problem twice in the last two months. 

Divine Sphere of Protection
6 FP; Traits: Caster
This prayer creates an impenetrable sphere in a ten-foot radius around the caster, through which only sound and air can pass. Any effect that is delivered by sound or air (i.e., a bard song or poison gas) will bypass the sphere. The sphere appears instantly in place and molds around all inanimate objects that have a greater length or width than the sphere’s radius, leaving them outside the sphere. It will remain in existence for as long as the caster stands motionless, head down, chanting the prayer words of her deity. Any interruption in the chanting, unless during an official hold in game-play, will cause the sphere to dispel.


As all rules, it does only what it says it does.

It does NOT allow you to push enemies outside of the sphere you have created. 
It does NOT allow people to walk in and out of the sphere as they wish.
It CANNOT be dispelled using Dispel Prayer Effect.

-OOG Michael Smith
11 Jan 2010 08:11 #2 by Alexander Van Zandt (Logan)
Replied by Alexander Van Zandt (Logan) on topic Misunderstood rules
Why can't it be dispelled?

Alexander Van Zandt
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11 Jan 2010 08:30 #3 by Erdrick (Erdrick)
Replied by Erdrick (Erdrick) on topic Misunderstood rules
Dispel Prayer Effect

2 FP; Traits: Attack, Ranged
This prayer dispels the effect of an active prayer upon the subject. This prayer cannot reverse damage or other effects that occur instantaneously, only prayers that remain active upon the subject for a specific duration. The caster must state the effect she is targeting with the dispel, and if the recipient or opponent is not under that effect, then the dispel is expended with no result.

That bolded line of text means that prayers that exist based off concentration such as holding an arm up or reciting verbals cannot be taken down by Dispel Prayer Effect as they do not have a specific duration.

Lord Erdrick Brightstar
Guardian of Belladeen
(Samuel Roberts)
11 Jan 2010 09:43 #4 by Alexander Van Zandt (Logan)
Replied by Alexander Van Zandt (Logan) on topic Misunderstood rules
That doesn't make any sense. This spell has a specific duration, which is until concentration is broken. Specific means, explict,defined, and definite. Divine Sphere of Protection has a duration that is explict in that it is fully and clearly expressed, is defined as until as long as the caster stands motionless, head down, chanting the prayer words of her deity and finally is definite in that it has clear limitations. Therefore it meets the criteria to be affected by Dispell prayer Effect.

If it is the intent of this spell not to be able to be dispelled I accept that but I suggest the text in the prayer be modified to specifically state it is Immune to Dispell Prayer Effect.


Alexander Van Zandt
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11 Jan 2010 11:10 #5 by Odo Garaath (Odo)
Replied by Odo Garaath (Odo) on topic Misunderstood rules
The prayer couldn't enter the sphere anyway because it's not air or gas.

"Praise be to Enax, and blessing to his followers."

(Tom Senger )
11 Jan 2010 11:59 #6 by Alexander Van Zandt (Logan)
Replied by Alexander Van Zandt (Logan) on topic Misunderstood rules
The target of Dispell Prayer Effect would be the Prayer not the person so it does not need to go through the sphere to hit the caster. Which is why taking Spell Immunity Dispell Prayer Effect or Lesser Dispell Magic does not prevent someone from dispelling prayers on you.

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11 Jan 2010 12:23 #7 by Odo Garaath (Odo)
Replied by Odo Garaath (Odo) on topic Misunderstood rules
It's listed as an attack. A ranged attack must hit the target in order for it to affect it. You are trying to attack the target. Since you can not hit the target due to the prayer, you can not affect the target.

"Praise be to Enax, and blessing to his followers."

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11 Jan 2010 12:27 #8 by THENPC (THENPC)
Replied by THENPC (THENPC) on topic Misunderstood rules
Arguing over 'why' is moot.
The ruling has been made.

Adversus Nox Noctis,
Sir Lethias Discretion Nathaniel Peregrin Christopher Wrathchild VonRitter
Knight of Travance
Putting the Shiv in Chivalry Since 1202

Mortem facit omnes aequales, vitam facit omnes fratres
Vince The NPC;
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11 Jan 2010 12:54 - 11 Jan 2010 12:57 #9 by Alexander Van Zandt (Logan)
Replied by Alexander Van Zandt (Logan) on topic Misunderstood rules
So this is an offical ruling that Divine Sphere of Protection can not be dispelled with Dispell Prayer Effect?

In which case does that mean Divine Sanctuary can not be dispelled with Dispell Prayer Effect?

Can Magic Sanctuary be dispelled with Lesser Dispell Magic?

Alexander Van Zandt
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Last edit: 11 Jan 2010 12:57 by .
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11 Jan 2010 12:59 #10 by Ardentfyre (Ardentfyre)
Replied by Ardentfyre (Ardentfyre) on topic Misunderstood rules
For now, yes, we're in the process of reviewing and codifying all of the Dispel type casting effects, so when we've updated them this will likely be resolved as well.

Sam misquoted the line that denies the use of this spell, it's the first sentence that excludes the Divine Sphere:

This prayer dispels the effect of an active prayer upon the subject.


Again, all of the Dispel type effects have slightly different wording, which is not the intention, and they will be stream-lined soon.

Lord Antrim Ardentfyre
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        Master of Defense of the Mages Guild



[hr]
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11 Jan 2010 13:16 #11 by Alexander Van Zandt (Logan)
Replied by Alexander Van Zandt (Logan) on topic Misunderstood rules
Sounds good Jon,

Thanks

Alexander Van Zandt
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11 Jan 2010 17:34 #12 by geezer (geezer)
Replied by geezer (geezer) on topic Misunderstood rules
It appears from the initial ruling that if a Divine Sphere of Protection is cast on a group, one of whom is an enemy, said enemy stays inside the sphere and cannot leave.  Thus, is said enemy was dropped and the sphere kept for a sufficient length of time for him to bleed out, there is nothing that anyone outside can do?

Would distant heal work in that instance?

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