Rules Update - Truth Detection Abilities & Defenses against them

The following rules changes have been made:

A new Trait has been added:
Interrogate: Abilities with this trait determine if the target is telling the truth or not.

This trait is added to the following abilities:
Interrogate (Skill), Extract Truth (Skill), Torture (Skill), Torment (Skill), Dread Surgery (Skill), Confession (Prayer), and Truth Ear (Ability).

Willpower (Periodic)
Defense
This defense skill allows a character to resist a mental attack or mind-influencing ability. In addition, the character is immune to that attack or ability for thirty minutes. When used to defend against an ability with the Interrogation trait, it allows the character to lie, and the person using the detection ability believes that their skill or effect has worked properly.

The skills Torture, Torment, and Dread Surgery have the following lines added to them ("Extract Truth" specifically does not gain this line, this is intentional):
"Use of the skill Willpower as a defense does not allow the recipient to lie to the torturer, only to resist having to answer the questions."

This has been updated in the Online Rulebook.

As a question along these lines, should the prayer "Detect Truth" also have this trait?  Or is it different from the others in some way?

Yes, it should - thank you for the catch.

How does this integrate with the changes:

Confession
4 FP; Traits: Divine (Law), Attack, Interrogation
This prayer compels the subject to speak the truth in response to the next question that the caster asks her. The subject can choose not to answer the question, but if she responds she must give a completely true and accurate answer. If the subject does not answer the question, the prayer binds her to the preceding described conditions for a duration of one hour with respect to the specific question and the caster.

It integrates just like the wording for Confession and Willpower says it does.

If they take the Confession, and answer, they must do so truthfully, per the Confession rules.

If they take the Confession, and choose not to answer, they are bound, per the Confession rules.

If they use a Willpower, they may lie, and the person casting the Confession believes it to be true, per the Willpower rules.

What exactly will someone using Torture, Torment, or Dread Surgery be able to tell happened when someone willpowers the use of those skills?

Additionally, how would Disordered Mind work in the same situation? Is it distinguishable from the use of willpower?

Disordered Mind

1 FP; Traits: Divine (Chaos), Caster
This prayer renders the caster immune to truth compelling skills, spells, or abilities for a duration of one hour. The caster cannot lie and escape detection, but merely is able to resist any compulsion to speak the truth, and can choose to remain silent.

I know that Truth of the Gypsy is the Trump card for all Gypsy when asked a question. Does this skill still Trump Interrogations?

What exactly will someone using Torture, Torment, or Dread Surgery be able to tell happened when someone willpowers the use of those skills?

They will know when the person doesn't answer the question, yes...

Disordered Mind and Truth of they Gypsy still do what they say they do - nothing has changed with how they work.  The addition of the Interrogation trait only affects Willpower.

The real heart of my question is can someone at this point tell the difference from someone remaining silent during torture due to willpower, or disordered mind?

"Any caster that uses an effect (skill or spell) is aware if it is successful or not, and why it was not successful if it failed. This information is vague, and not specific. For example, if you use an Enfeeble Mind on someone, and they use a latent spell as a defense but play dumb, you will still be aware the spell failed because a latent spell was used to defend against it."

So the Torturer would know it was a latent effect, versus a skill, that was the reason they did not answer the question.

Because this is a somewhat touchy metagaming subject...should the person calling willpower against truth detection do so at the time he is using it to lie, or is it permissible, if a rules marshal is present, to have that marshal be the arbiter of your willpower. 

As it stands, regardless of whether or not you use a willpower to defend against it, you know the statement made was a lie (or suspect such). In the case of willpower, you only know out of game, which can easily lead to metagaming.

Also, if the person using willpower makes up some outrageous and patently unbelievable answer, is the torturer forced to believe that lie?  The wording implies that he must since he believes that his truth telling ability was successful. 

We have in fact created the potential for a very delicate situation with this rule. We were aware of this when this change was made. What this means is inevitably, in the game world it will be known that truth detection short of torture is not 100% reliable. If you want 100% reliable than you need to dance the fine line of morals, to torture or not to torture. Even then though, Gypsys have made is so that even torture is only 99% accurate. Do you have to believe what the person is saying? No, you don't, because in the game world you already know that your truth detection ability (not including torture) is only around 80% reliable.  What you do believe is that your 80% reliable ability was not defended against by any unnatural way. What you have to decide is whether or not 80% is good enough for you. If not, seek out a torturer, if your character would do so.

(disclaimer: I threw out some percentages in the above reply... they are not particularly scientific, but I hope that they help to illustrate the intent of my response)

Jeramy - you have a good point, and there's a fine line between believing a lie, and believing the person is telling the truth, as they know it.

Example:

Fred is caught at the scene of a gruesome murder.  He's hauled off for information.  During the use of Interrogation, Fred offers up that he and his gang, the Red Shirts, did not do the crime.  Fred, it should be noted, is wearing a green shirt.  The player of Fred calls a Willpower against an Interrogate, and as such, the person interrogating thinks that their use of the skill worked.  Fred is clearly not telling the truth, by concrete physical evidence.

The Interrogator would think Fred truly believes the gang is called the Red Shirts, and is telling the truth, as he sees it, even though evidence is against him.  Maybe he's color blind, maybe his memory has been altered by someone, or a suggestion planted in his head.  The interrogator would not come to the conclusion that the Interrogation flat out failed, like it would if they used a Disordered Mind, or an anti-Pain effect - in the latter cases, they would pick up that the interrogation failed outright.

One of the key aspects of Knight Realms is trust and fairness in a conflict, wether it's verbal or physical.  Just like you do not need a marshal to cover every strike in combat, players should make it a point to trust the results of a skill exchange, and also honor that trust and not abuse it.  Just like in physical combat,  if you suspect someone is cheating, contact a Marshal to handle the situation.  That is what they are there for.

Thanks Geoff, that response makes perfect sense.  I hadn't considered that viewpoint when looking at blatant lies.  Though, it may perhaps serve to have that somewhere in the description, as I doubt many people would think about it that way when the Skill is being used, something like...

"Even if the lie is a blatant, the interrogator believes that the character has told the truth to the best of their ability".

Also as a side note, I am very pleased by this change.  Thank you rules gnomes!

...that is not sarcasm.

...neither was that.

What exactly will someone using Torture, Torment, or Dread Surgery be able to tell happened when someone willpowers the use of those skills?

They will know when the person doesn't answer the question, yes...

Disordered Mind and Truth of they Gypsy still do what they say they do - nothing has changed with how they work.  The addition of the Interrogation trait only affects Willpower.

Is Riddle of Deceit the same or no?