Any other WoW mages

Crapping themselves about our lackluster talents compared to everyone elses?

Yeah, mages don't need a lot of help, good CC, good escape mechanisms, solid single target DPS, excellent AoE DPS... about all you lack is durability.

T

proud owner/operator of six, count 'em SIX Paladins, spread across 3 servers.

Not really. Anymore mage's get out dps'd by like everything. The main reason their in high demand is from their amazing CC, buff, and their vending machine status.

If your mages are being out-DPSed by any melee class, you need new mages.  Every instances in the end game has many opportunities for mages to boost their DPS to ridiculous extremes by AoEing trash mobs to their hearts content.

If you only judge mages by their contribution on boss mobs, then their DPS lags a bit behind Warlocks and well-geared and well-played Hunters and S-Priests, but not by that much.  In my regular melee group (Fury Warrior, Combat Sword Rogue, Enhance Shammy, Feral Druid and Ret Pally (me)) I usually finish third or fourth in DPS on melee-friendly bosses like Magtheridon.  Who beats me?  A Warlock, a Mage and sometimes the Enhance Shammy.

There are a few classes that can still complain about their abilites, Ret Paladins are too dependent on others to be raid effective, Prot Warriors need a better way to hold group aggro, and a few more specs need some help, but mages are pretty solid in PvE and are damned powerful in PvP.

T

lawlz

You play a ret pally, no wonder youre always so cranky.



-andy

If your mages are being out-DPSed by any melee class, you need new mages.  Every instances in the end game has many opportunities for mages to boost their DPS to ridiculous extremes by AoEing trash mobs to their hearts content.
If you only judge mages by their contribution on boss mobs, then their DPS lags a bit behind Warlocks and well-geared and well-played Hunters and S-Priests, but not by that much. 

Word.

When I played consistently (mind you, before the expansion), mages did a consistent level of dps, and since mages have some great aoe's they would always be pretty high up on the dps counter.

Any class in WoW can be great and useful if they are played correctly and planned accordingly. The level of awesomeness doesn't depend on the gear, or how much better or worse the classes' skills are (it helps, though), but the skill of the player.

Says Emily, who doesn't really know a whole heck of a lot about mages  :-X

  If you consider "end-game" to be Magtheridon then you don't really have anything to base your judgement off of.  The problem with mage DPS comes in to play at T5 and T6, and at these phases the "glass-cannon" turns into the "vending-machine" because a warlock or rogue can do everything else we can do, and still do more DPS.  A mage caps out at about 2200-2600dps and will never break that as it stands now, a warlock or rogue however can get to about 2700-3000+ depending on how good they are.  Mages are broken and Blizzard has already admitted they need some fixing to catch up with warlocks especially.

  Also, I have a friend who pally tanks, and I don't know what yer talkin about, Druids and Paladins have pretty much totally replaced warriors on everything except end-game raid bosses (and they shouldn't be better than warriors either, that's what they're made to do).  Don't get me wrong, paladins definately need some fixing, being locked out of all of your spells for up to 8 seconds sucks as a holy paladin, but I guess you can't wear plate and heal better than a priest without some downfall.

  Regardless, I love playing a mage, they take more skill than most other classes and beating those classes time and time again makes me a happy camper.

  To the original poster I'm not really sure which talents you're talking about, did you mean the new WOTLK talents or the current ones?



-Jon

wow is lame

the end

Eh, it's somethin to do till WAR comes out.



-Jon

*blinks* I dont understand a word in this thread.

Well in my experience (limited to all of SSC, the first couple of bosses of TK and Hyjal) there are really few encounters after Magtheridon that melee DPS can just go nuts, most encounters in that part of the game are either phase-complicated (meaning that melee DPS has to do something other than DPS the boss during parts of the fight, thus falling behind ranged DPS to a vast degree) or melee-unfriendly (meaning the boss has abilities or does things that result in melee DPS being less than ideal for the encounter, like nasty knockback, or random aggro-dropping), so I used Magtheridon as an example of a boss that IS melee-friendly.  Sorry if you are too 1337 to get it, but MOST players won't see Mag at all, much less anything that is truly end game.

Also, please refer to:

www.wwsscoreboard.com/classplacings.php

And tell me again about Mage issues..

T

Easily, Mages are beaten by warlocks in EVERY instance.  Give me one reason why you'd ever take more than one mage if you have another warlock to take his place?

One mage in a 25-man can do all the CC you need (if you need it all) make a table, buff AB, and portal.  A Walock however has Blood Pact for whatever group they're in, Curse's that help overall raid DPS (which you'd need multiple warlocks to sustain all the different kinds), AND they do more damage then mages.

Rogue 2475
Warlock 2231
Warrior 2096
Hunter 2068
Mage 2029
Shaman 1787
Paladin 1594
Druid 1520
Priest 1403


Blizzard's "glass-cannon" is #5 in overall DPS.

Why did you even bother posting this if it totally contradicts what you're arguing?


-Jon

LOL, no one promised that Mages would be "tops in DPS", ever.  They have tons of utility (a raid buff, two forms of CC, tons of AoEs to choose from, and once again their famous "oh shit" cards), just that they would be competitive.  Are you looking for a "swiss army knife" class, one that is the best at everything?  None of the mages I know, or have spoken to, have serious issues with the class, only minor gripes or tweaks they would like to see.

Way to look at a page with a ton of raid info and only look at the ones that suit your argument. Looking across the content by tier you can see how mages start off dominant in t4, and drop off after that.  The issue is not the CLASS it's the scalability, and mages don't scale poorly, just rogues and warriors scale incredibly well.

When your Warlock pulls aggro, what does he do?  He dies.  A quick mage can Ice Block or Blink to buy a few more seconds for the tank to reestablish control.

If you want to say Warlocks are overpowered, then Yes, I agree with you, but to say Mages are underpowered is ignorance or foolishness. If any classes have room to complain it would be Shammys and Pallys, as tehy have builds that are supposed to be DPS viable, but obviously are not, at least at the levels of gear that a typical player will see.

My argument has been that mages are fine as they are, not needing any major changes,and certainly not gimped.

T

You barely even addressed any of my agruements, so I can see that continuing this discussion would be pretty pointless. 

You think what you will and the entire mage community will continue to think what they will. 

Also, I never said they had serious issues, if I did I wouldn't have made another one when I went Horde side, either mage's need a small tweak in the positive or warlocks need one in the negative.



-Jon

wtb talents that arent a rehash of other players skills, btw.


And John is right. I hit 1672 dps tonight on solarion, and finished first, but this is mostly because there's a lot of AOE, and I'm stacked for t5 encounters. Once you get into BT/Hyjal/SWP, melee scaling DESTROYs caster scaling aside from the occasional warlock.

Mages deserve at least warlock par, if not rogue level dps, because again, we cannot chose to do anything but DPS. We can't spec for utility [warlocks with maledicted curses, eleshammys with totem buffs], we can't tank, and certainly can't heal. So when all you have is DPS, it tends to be semi-important.

One mage went on the world's first KJ kill. You know why? The reason given was "Anything a mage can do, a warlock can do better."

It's the fact that we're being phased out of raids to the point that we're not worth taking. And THAT is why mage dps issues need to be addressed

All mages, please take this road



reroll nubz

-andy

<- plans on rerolling gnome DK for the ex-pack

I used to play WoW back in beta and upto the first expansion, then i stopped cause I don't have the time to play online games anymore.

However, the problem lies in the fundamental explanation of what the class was meant to be.  It was supposed to be a "glass canon" as has been mentioned before.  And Warlocks were definitely screwed royally for quite awhile there.  However, while yes mages have some very nice utility options, it was a giant let down that the mage's dps was so much lower than anticipated based on the stated purpose of them by the game makers themselves.  There was a lot of anticipation that they would hover close to rogues, but that never happened. 

I'm by no means saying mages are bad, they arent.  My main was a mage and had I the time to play again, i'd play a mage again in a heartbeat. But the fact remains, they are not what Blizzard led people to believe they would be back in beta and at launch.

I play a mage.
And have always enjoyed playing a mage.
Sorry you're not cheatzor enough, go roll a hunter or something.

Cry more, losers.

Do you just play your mage in Goldshire, Elyse?  Or are you more of a feathermoon isle girl?


-Andy