Confessions

Out of Curiosity,

From a theological standpoint what will this dalliance with your deity entail, and what benefit will it bring those who participate in the practice?

With Prudence & Fortitude

It will bring one relief, if you truly believe you willfully committed improper action. When I hear them, we go to a secluded area and the other person unburdens his soul. Sometimes it is on a walk, sometimes on the porch, other times, at table.

Theologically, if one is sincere and does proper penance, it may influence Galladell when you appear.

Edwin, thank you for so succinctly and kindly responding to a very curious Verrill.

To address your question Verrill, it seems that you are in need of a furtherance in education about the Gods, as your question plainly displays your ignorance, I would not want to go through the basic rudimentary knowledge and instruction of theology that most peasant children understand let alone a "xeno-theologist" -whatever in Gods' names that implies. As this is a forum for an offering of services and not an academy, you would have to seek out a scholar or a priest/cleric when in town next, as I wouldn't want to use all of the power Andorra has blessed me with maintaining my patience with you perhaps another priest or cleric may be better suited. I suggest Brother Aldric, as he has a way with words and enjoys enlightening people.

I also suggest that the next time you wish to make threats against me disguised under friendship and respect for "using my God's gifts to alter your mind", when all I seek to accomplish is to unburden your mind & soul by praying for forgiveness to the Goddess of love compassion and forgiveness; Andorra... You should do so openly and not privately. I have nothing to hide, do you? Would you like to get something off your chest?

May the light guide your path and keep you safe.
With love and respect,

As Mother Angeliana has suggested I would be happy to discuss theological matters, and I believe we are over due for a continuation of our discussion, Verrill. Seek me out and let us see what conclusions we arrive at together.

Further I invite anyone curious about religious matters to seek out a clergy, myself or any other ordained Priest or Cleric.


-Brother Aldric

As an ordained priest of the void, I would be glad to speak on religious matters. Anyone who wishes to subject themselves to the musings of the Lord of Entropy may seek me out at their leisure.
I also will take your confessions.

-Orophin

**Not Caelvan**

I have taken confessions of many back home in AmonZad.
So I will be glad to do so here in Travance if people would like to come to me.

Also any questions on The Reaper I am willing to discuss this topic as well.

Merikh
Priest of Galmachis.

While certainly not my meaning when I recommended speaking to ordained clergy, thine point is taken. However, I caution all seekers of truth to be careful of the source.

Father Haroldson,

Thank you. Your response was to the point and educational and I thank you for it.

Angeliana,

What? I apologize, I grew up in a community that was devoid of faith and I came to you, as a woman of faith, for guidance in this matter. I hope that my simple inquiry as to the traditions of your faith were not perceived as a threat, but perhaps I was mistaken in my view of your Goddess being one of compassion and patience.

In Education and Learning,

Forgive my ignorance... but what exactly are people going to be confessing? I thought a majority of all "sins" are really crimes against either the Church or the Barony?

Doesn't each deity has his/her own set of rules regarding what is proper for each worshipper? Therefore a "sin" that a worshipper of Valos may perform could NOT be counted as a "sin" under the ethos of say, Galadel? or Brazen?

For most folks, if you have done some kind of wrong or sin, then...

the person you sinned against is gonna come find you & kick the ever living crap out of you for doing it against them...

someone from the Church or Barony finds out what you did wrong, & forces you to pay a fine or goto Jail...

Or whatever you did isn't all that bad or gets overlooked as some giant demon/werewolf/vampire/evil overlord/evil army/sea monster/moat beast/etc. is attacking Travance & we decide to table the discussion o later (ie we forget about it after the fight).

As I also am not of any faith - I would like to inquire what confessing entails. Is it a simply therapeutic process or will there actually be some interaction with your god? If so - are some of you more open to listening to one such as myself who holds none your gods in any sort of reverence?

Also as pointed out earlier - since most 'sins' are also crimes what is the actual level of autonomy and confidence being offered here? I'd hate to seem pessimistic or judging but seeing as an exchange that supposedly happened in private was referred to on this board, I find myself doubting.

Sincerly,
Cecilia Mercier
Vassal of Ostcliff

The point made that different Gods' hold tenets that view specific moral wrongs as sins is partly the case, however I would add that all Gods of Light view Goodness as a set of modes of behavior in common.

It is the right of every being to live without fear, free from the threat of death or pain. It is the right of every being to live without disease and corruption, the right of the sick to be healed, and to live a life free from random destruction and enslavement. Those are the basic tenets all of the Gods of Light profess. That is our collective mission.

What Mother Angeliana is offering, is an ear. Her kind heart to listen to thine troubles, offer advice when asked, and above all keep faith with those who come to her. That means discussing the evils we have done in our lives, providing a path to repent, and ultimately showing thee a way out of the hole thee dig when thine path leads to Darkness. There is always a chance for redemption, and we all are committed to finding that path with thee.

Some criticize the Church for not being involved with the rest of our citizens, this is one way that we are trying to change that. A Journey of a thousand leagues begins with but one simple step forward. Allow Mother Angeliana, or another Light Clergy, to take that step with thee.

Miss Mercier,

You have some excellent questions, and I am sure they would be answered better in quiet confidence and in person. I would be happy to meet with you at your convenience.

I will say, in my experience confession is both a time for me to open up to myself, my god and another person.
I do not believe that ones faith, or lack there of would in any way effect the value of allowing the weight of your sins to be released. Having faith may aid the process in some way, but it is certainly not a prerequisite, if you will.

I have traveled a great many places with the army as a soldier for Kormyre and I have found places on Arawyn where the gods names are not known, and yet I still watch similar rituals and services being practiced. I have seen how it helps people and helps build trust within a community.

On the subject of privacy, in my experience, formal confessions are private in nature and unless you express an immediate and real desire to do harm to someone, I see no reason why your confidence would be betrayed. Though you should express your concerns to the priest who would hear you beforehand.

I hope I have been of some help, and I hope we have a chance to speak soon.

The act of confession is a very personal and private experience. All that is necessary is for one to admit to things by which they feel burdened, things which weigh heavily upon their shoulders every day, things which warrant regret, things for which you wish to repent and be forgiven. It can be anything, it does not need to be fitting into any category or definition of 'sin'. One might ask for forgiveness for something that another would be proud of and consider an accomplishment, as I've said, it is a very personal experience, unique to each individual and their morals / what they feel in their hearts. I will listen, and I will pray for forgiveness.

Dear Verrill,

You were not mistaken, simply confused and curious. Andorra embodies love, compassion, and forgiveness. She is not the Goddess of patience, although that is one of the miracles she is able to grant if a devout worshiper prays her for it. I am sorry you grew up in a community that was devoid of faith and that you weren't curious about the Gods until now. Guidance is freely given, as you can see my fellow clergymen are very open and willing to educate you on the matter and answer any questions you might have. I suggested them, as they are more eloquent with words than I am. Your inquiry was not the threat made, your private missive and the words you chose to refer to the act of confession were insulting to me and my faith. But perhaps I was mistaken; I invite you to talk to me in person so that we may resolve our misunderstanding.

May the light guide your path and keep you safe.
With love and respect,

Angeliana,

I must pass on meeting you in person. It would seem that private matters have a tendency to turn public in your hands, but since its public I will remind you publicly that it is illegal and immoral to use your deities powers to alter the wills of others (as you attempted to force upon me last moon in regards to a pending legal matter). I had asked you as a friend to refrain from committing such a heinous act upon me. You found the idea of us being friends so improbable that you perceived it as a threat and a slight.

To put this into even clearer terms I will share an excerpt of Baronial Law;

None shall torture another, nor cause the insanity of another, nor control the mind, body, or emotions of another excepting with the explicit sanction of a Lord or the Baron, or if the subject be - of free and clear spirit - willing.

Whosoever breaks with this law shall be fined between ten and twenty gold pieces, one half of which the Barony will remit to the victim, and will spend from one to three months in the dungeon. If the victim of the crime is an Officer of the Barony, then the convicted will be fined between twenty and fifty gold pieces, one half of which the Barony will remit to the victim, and will spend from three to six months in the dungeon. If the victim of the crime is of noble title, then the convicted will be publicly executed, will be stripped of all belongings, and upon the decision of the Baron may be exiled or obliterated. If the convicted has broken with this law before, then the convicted will be publicly executed, will be stripped of all belongings, and upon the decision of the Baron may be exiled or obliterated.

Yours In Seemingly Endless Patience,

((OOG: The parchment is folded and dirtied by dried blood. The writing is shaky as if great effort was put into just being able to write the words.))

Verill,

Your understanding on this matter is very obviously lacking. Perhaps you should come back when you gain the understanding of the words that have been written here. Quoting a law that you do not understand is just as bad as blindly following it. So please, for your sanity and mine, cease your vapid argument as you are merely saying the same thing over and over. You are lucky that they have shown you kindness repetitively. I would not have been so kind.

Lucien, Angeliana and Aldric,

Though I have just made it to the proper, I find that my journey has not yet concluded. When I have found an answer I seek, I will surely submit myself to a confession.

-Ava

If thou doth have a charge bring it to the guard. I believe thou hath not because thou doth know no crime was committed, so instead slander is thine response. Truly, Verrill, thou hath more integrity than that. We will speak on this matter as well, if thee wish. In any case, this discussion hath no place in an announcement for a public service.

Ava, we will be here when thou art ready for us.

This argument has gone on long enough, why not settle it over a drink at the bar?

Verril my friend, for one who wishes not to throw your matters out in public, you seem to be causing such a fuss over something that could be handled in a private conversation, yet you being a scholar use your fancy mind to make yourself seem right. As much as I respect you, such a way to go about this all does not suit you my friend.

To Angelica, I ask why do you continue to entertain this argument? If Verril does not see the light of the Gods, let him not see the light. It is understandable. Verril is a man of logic, though he tends to be too deep in thought a lot of the times. His faith is in logic, yours is in Andorra. Let faiths lay where they will as this quarrel is going no where and seeming to create more issues.

I leave the people with this. It does not matter what you believe in, as long as what is in your heart is just. As long as you feel like you can live with yourself when you lay beside the fire at night then do what you feel is right.

I have lived in so much sin, so much that I will be judged for. I wonder everyday if the doors to The Great Hall will be opened for me, I wonder if I am worthy of the life I lead and am I living in up to those I had to kill in the war?

My suggestion, for every life that you take, you live your life with twice as much passion than before. So enjoy your books Verril and your confessions Angelica, but let this argument cease. It doesn't suit either of you.

Signed, With Truth,
Jack Dimms

I am quite curious now, since I am still fairly new to Travance and have yet to see a legal matter unfold. At fear of sounding rude I must ask, is it common for claims of committed crimes to be ignored and belittled instead of properly investigated? Or is it situation and individual specific? I apologize if my wording seems rude or at all inflammatory. I seem to be failing at finding a different way to word it that doesn't cloud my meaning.

It seems to me that if there is some misunderstanding about whether or not a mental state that Mr. Lebastion did not ask for was or was not attempted to be forced upon him in anyway -- whether spell or prayer -- then a simple investigation would clear it right up.

Also, I don't think one should be accused of not understanding a law and then not have it explained to them. If the law quoted above is not applicable to the situation, then could one fully explain it? If not for Mr. Lebastion's sake then perhaps mine, so I refrain from further misinterpreting in the future.

Sincerly,
Cecilia Mercier
Vassal of Ostcliff

Not all legal matters are brought to the public's eye. Most are investigated privately to protect all involved.

To clear things up, Cecilia, I believe there are three different threads here. I'd like to emphasize that this is speculation and my interpretation of events.
The one is about confessions.
The second is about an inflammatory missive Verrill has sent Angelianna.
The third is about some private incident between Angelianna and Verrill this past moon.
The law that Verrill has quoted is in pertaining to the third thread, the private incident. My assumption, and I can be corrected if I'm wrong, is that Angelianna used some divine power to calm or otherwise pacify Verrill.
Verrill did not wish to be calmed, pacified, or otherwise have his emotional state altered and is publicly threatening to press charges against Angelianna.
Avaiiden believes that Verrill is quoting that law in response to the first thread, confessions. As that law has no bearing on consensual confessions, Avaiiden has stated that Verrill misunderstands the law. If Verrill was indeed citing the law for the first thread, Avaiiden would be correct in her statement.

I will disagree with you on having the law explained, as that would be the job of somebody who is sworn to uphold the law, or somebody who makes the laws, or somebody who judges the laws.
By the lettering of the law, forcefully calming somebody against their will would be a crime as it is altering an emotional state.
However a gray area exists in determining a person's true agency between normal emotional levels, anger induced agency, etc. For example, a raging berserker might not want to be forcefully calmed while he is taken by rage, but when not raging the berserker expresses that he or she wants to be forcefully calmed when raging. It is the same person, yet there exist two different agencies. This is an extreme example, but best illustrates how emotions are a blight when determining a person's wants and desires, especially in cases of the law.

Dearest Angeliana

Verill’s mind is an incredible one, he seeks knowledge in its purest and finest form, and he has a way of thinking that most will never truly understand. But should someone honor him with but a moment they will find that he seeks a different enlightenment then that of the faithful. I respect that Verill seeks knowledge, but I fear most don’t see his views in life. I wish others had your temperance and outlook on the world we love dearest Angeliana.

Dear Verill
Angeliana is very dear to us, and her Faith and compassion are stronger then the greatest oak, and her faith is the roots that help her grow in life. But unlike the Great Oak Verill , her branches is the compassion and love that she uses to covers and protects us. Faith is a wonderful thing Verill, you might want to view it as a Grand Grimoire that people find the answers they been seeking in life.

Angeliana, Verill I consider you both my friends, and so I Sir Pluvious Humbly ask for you to meet with me at the inn on Saturday one past noon. Let us sit, eat and be merry. I will be waiting for you both, and I will make arrangements for our meals to be taken care of.
Know that even thou I am a Noble my heart will always belong to the people that I serve and protect, people like yourselves.

Come meet with me, and let me enjoy your good company

ok lets say for example that person A, lets call him Jim, is a heathen and considers the members of the church to be a bunch of crazy cultists and does not really regret being a heathen or heathen beliefs, but wants to be forgiven by the church for being one would Jim qualify for a confession.

As a churchly man, I would tell Jim that tis not a sin to be ungodly. To follow those of the dark would be something forgivable in the eyes of the church, should Jim wish to repent and follow the light instead. But were Jim to merely be a man of no gods, far as I'm concerned it is no sin. And thus, there's naught in need of forgiving. As to him believing we're a bunch of crazy cultists, were he to say such things in the presence of someone churchly, there might be cause for offense taken. But if we were to be willing to be changing his mind on that score, or at least hear a churchly man out, such an offense could be easily forgiven.

Brother Bran MacInnes

"It is the right of every being to live without fear, free from the threat of death or pain. It is the right of every being to live without disease and corruption, the right of the sick to be healed, and to live a life free from random destruction and enslavement. Those are the basic tenets all of the Gods of Light profess."

Rights and wants are very different things. Of everything written here, this I find to be the most amusing. It is only because of the existence of fear that courage may ever come to pass, death is what makes life so poignant, pain is the fire in which we as people are forged. Disease culls the herd, brings down the weak, or feeble. And the ideal that corruption is so terribly misunderstood is... well is normal. One cannot corrupt those who are already corrupt, and none save those who can reach into another's mind can truly make anyone do anything they truly do not want to do. The people always have a choice, they may not like their choices, but rarely do any of us. People do what they most want to do regardless of what they may protest about, otherwise their actions would not come to pass, and simply put; people most often choose what is easy. And clearly if we were all meant to lead lives free of random destruction and enslavement perhaps the Gods would do something about that, and Arawyn would not still be smoldering from Xualla. Those closest to the Gods are all slaves in one form or another-conscripted soldiers in a war they mostly do not understand.

Indeed, be very wary of "the source" when seeking knowledge and "truth."

To any so interested, it is always my pleasure to unburden one from their sins.

**Not Caelvan**

"Free from the threat of death..."

Must have skimmed over that one.... Why is death a threat? Death is nothing to fear. I certainly don't fear it. Death is nothing to run from. If it is your time then it is your time. No sense of bravery or fear will prevent it.

Any who wish to discuss this further seek me out the next time I am in the Proper.

-Merikh

I am going to make this short.

Responding to the point of this posting, and the problems held with it; if you go to church looking to confess you are giving express permission to have the clergy member use prayers to discern the truth so they may pray to their god for your forgiveness.

If anyone wishes to bring matters involving the law to light, please do so with the guard readily available, and without making a mess of these boards, or incriminating yourself and/or others.

I am not ending this as a discussion, but request that before people put quill to parchment and tack it here, please put thought of what you are saying, and how it could be taken. Even innocent sounding words can be condemning if put in the wrong order, or with the wrong intent.

Vice-Captain Squire. Oren Tenderson

Following on the words of Vice-Captain Tenderson,

This would mark at least the second case in as many months where a person has made a false and unsubstantiated statement against a member of the Clergy.

This distracting and attention seeking behavior is annoying and frankly, boring and should cease immediately.
If anyone has reason or evidence of an actual crime committed , produce your evidence, bring it to a guardsman and see justice done.

Atrus,

Sadly, despite the horror of your damnation, which I know you feel, you would still waste time trying to convince others that you are some benign agent of entropy. Though that word is heinously misused by you and your ilk.

Your argument is undone by its own unwieldy and circular nature. Light can exist without darkness, it always has. Light is an expression of goodness and effort and energy. Darkness is simply its absence. Darkness cannot in turn exist without light, but it is only by the grace of light that darkness has its corners to dwell in.

You speak of disease and corruption as if they could exist without something to infect?
I encourage all people to question the source of what motivates them, especially if the source of that motivation is something which would encourage a person to defile, sunder and distrust. You can cry that you are seeking "Balance" but in the end all intelligent people know that it is much easier to destroy something than it is to create it. The world has seen enough destruction without you and your putrid god trying to speed up the process.

If you seek to naturally cull the herd and tend to the worlds need for balance and natural order, I am certain a Gaian , Druid or Ranger could teach you how they do just that.

What I find most taxing is when an intelligent and troubled mind is wasted in this way.

I have and continue to keep you in my prayers Atrus, I hope you will find yourself in our company when confessions are heard. I will make my confession alongside you if you wish.

ive killed many for both light and dark in travance's name,and have seen many buried in both their name before and when the demons were upon us.....all i got was their silence,your gods are fickle and terrible,and impede ones true spiritual improvement and well being

Then thou art welcome to remain silent on this and any other issue regarding our Gods. Tis thine choice to write.