On the matter of the library

the matter is closed, but i see no reason i can't clear up some small misconceptions, and continue an open dialogue.

the shop''s purpose is, or will be, to generate an income for the academy so as to purchase tomes, stock a library, and facilitate the payment of instructors. There are other expenses such as the hiring of guards to protect from the errant highwayman.

as for cheating members, members receive discounts for purchasing from the shop, and a better sale rates to the shop. the shop only purchases wholesale, so as to be able to continue selling and staying open. the shop also would purchase in bulk.

member buying  for the purpose of selling on their own would make about 20% list price, but not have to make them. and members selling to the shop would and selling would make 30% less than selling on their own, but gain the ability to sell in bulk, and not have to run around advertising. in such cases the shop takes about 10% off the top for expenses.

Or at-least that is the theory. I'm certainly open to better suggestions. Other ways to fund the academy.

You are aware that a library exists.  It contains around 30 MS, 8 Codices and at least 3 tomes. 

Yes, and i think that one is far too few. i hope to raise enough money to begin the commissioning of many tomes, and coxedes, but that is all down the line.

Perhaps you can tell me in which you believe manuscripts, codices. and tomes are lacking?  I have four MS I will be adding next month along with two codices.  I am working on finishing two more.  Less talk, more writing.  We do not need two separate libraries.

So you are suggesting that all knowledge should be kept in one location? that duplication and pervasive of knowledge is pointless? that education should not be spread to all that it can reach?

True you can only teach those who seek it, but the act of spreading the idea that it can be sought, that's the goal.

We need as many libraries and as many professors and as many students as there are people in travance and more, for only when we truly understand something can we truly appreciate it.

Education may be a personal journey, but it should never be exclusive.

there will always be more codexes and manuscripts to attain as our knowledge and understanding Arawyn expands. Two libraries means two dedicated groups of people searching. Perhaps once the Academy reaches it's full potential, we can even set up lending programs between my proposed library and your practiced one.

Regardless i do not mean to suggest that the current library in Travance is lacking. I'm certain that someday it will even compare to some of the great libraries across the rift. I only wish to say that competition breads success. and Monopolies breed stagnancy.

Gentlemen, this topic has been considered closed by Rudolf Von Kreutzdorf, Chancellor of Trade and Guild Master to the Merchants Guild. Please take this to private message or speak to each other when we gather for the next feast.

And Father Edwin, I would appreciate you using my name correctly, it is Sister Ekatarina or Sister McKregar, I am not asking you to use all of my last names, just the correct spelling of it.

My apologies. I felt we had moved onto a new topic. I won't let it happen again.

Sister Ekaterina - my reading shows the matter f the prices of the alchemical services has been taken down for review.  The matter of the library and books is a completely separate topic.

Father Haroldson,

I, as Chroniclerite, a Loremaster, and the High Scholar of the Mage's Guild, am all for the discussion of libraries, books, and knowledge in general.  However, what I believe Sister McKraeger was attempting to say kindly, but may need to be put more bluntly now, is that the place for such a conversation as you and Professor Suliman were partaking in is better suited for places away from the public eye, since it appears more an individual dialogue that can be spoken of in personal missives rather than cluttering the board, especially as amendments to a subject declared by the Chancellor of Trade and Guildmaster of the Merchant's Guild to be finished.  If such a conversation is wanted by you and the Professor in such a public location, which I would not necessarily be opposed to, perhaps a fresh piece of parchment elsewhere on this fine board would be more appropriate.

In the Name of the Weave,

To whom it may concern:

Thank you for seperating this matter from the previous topic.  It is much appreciated.

In the Name of the Weave,

I think there might have been some misunderstanding. Rudolf asked for the temporary removal of the Academy Potion shop. Unless things have changed between his last missive and this one, The Academy is still scheduled to open, merely without the controversial material.

"Competition" between multiple libraries will by it's very existence reduce and or eliminate the dissemination of knowledge. When the librarian of one says " you may not use my library if you have or ever will use the other library" and do not insult my intelligence by even considering the notion of "that won't happen" it will. We have one fine library as it is and I am quite certain that new additions to it are always welcome. As for turning the library into a financial endeavor I feel such is A) a fools errand and to the detriment of the people at large and again snuffs out dissemination of knowledge. However if you are insistent upon it I believe the proprietor of the library would be the one for you to make a private financial arrangement with. But then again who am I to say anything I'm just as one of our most esteemed lords once put it; "a dumb barbarian"

Two barbarians fighting over libraries... I've officially seen all I've come here to see. That was in fact the last thing on my list! Time to head back to Londwyn. Its been great Travance! 

- Jonas Kane
Proprietor, Dragons Claw Inn

Just to amuse Jonas Kane, I figured I'd throw my two copper in, and come up with something witty to say.  The problem is, I've been told I can't count that high.  Oh well.

Brother Templar Ravyen, I believe your lack of counting is why you took a gypsy as your student.

Silly gadje with their written words. This is argument of joke right, being that so many of us don't frequent the library we already apparently have? If you are another person who could care less about how many libraries Travance has, come and talk stories with me. The enriching culture of spoken word is time honored tradition. Let those who cannot understand why we don't care sit with their heads in books at whichever library they care to be in.

It warms my cold Londwyn heart to see the populace so enthusiastic about libraries!

The scent of ink, the musty parchment, the rows upon rows of knowledge just waiting to be learned. The call of words is siren and for so long I had feared that the people of Travance were going through life with cotton in their ears. Oh, frabjous day!

Father Brax, allow me to address your statements directly. Perhaps your concerns are not an aberrant case, but instead give voice to the unspoken and the whispered (Do people whisper about libraries, or does that occur solely within them?). Primarly, you have expressed that more than one library would result in some kind of restriction of patronage set forth by the librarians. By the same token, you are implying that more than one of any kind of establishment would result in the same situation. As I would not dream of insulting your intelligence by contradicting your statement, I must express sadness that Jonas is leaving us and we will have but one inn (Jonas, dear, do take the kids with you when you return to Londwyn; they do so tend to get into the books and make a mess.). I am sure that the Bloody Stump is up to the task of providing for the monthly feast, as of course there are no differences between the establishments that would make one more suitable to a task that the other is not.

And how touching to see you concerned about slowing down the dissemination of information! Do us a favor, then, and tell us all the password to the Baronial library - or more accurately, to the building in which it resides? I always forget, and I have to track down Jack and pester him until he tells me. It wastes so much time, and having it written down here on the posting board will make the spread of the information contained within that library so much easier. Of course, one wonders about the security of a widely-known password, particularly as writing it down would mean that only the illiterate would not have access, and I doubt that they would be much interested in the library in any case.

I suppose I will also have to put aside my dreams of inter-library loans, comfortable couches upon which to sip tea whilst perusing the tomes, and holding classes and lectures in a space designed for such purposes. I shall endeavor to remind myself of your words, Father, every time we scholars meet in the current library with no desks or tables, and we find ourselves shoulder-to-shoulder unable to write without spilling ink on each other and must make sure Father Weaveforger's armaments have their own chair. I will do my best to think of it as growing closer to my fellow scholars. I shall also miss interrupting baronial meetings or members of the court sleeping and dressing every time I wish to consult a book.

On the upside, since attempting to monetize a library is a fool's errand, as you put it, I no longer have to worry about renting space from Travance, the materials cost of books, and the security of the building, all of which are expensive and would require some form of income. I am sure that since you are such a connoisseur of educational institutions that you would not be opposed to guarding a group of we scholars on a small adventure in order to collect coin. We must fund the contents of any library, baronial or not, somehow, and since scholars are not typically known for their prowess in battle we will require an escort. We cannot pay you in coin, of course, since any that we find must go towards purchasing materials to make the books, but surely the knowledge that you are helping spread education and information will be payment enough. Otherwise, we must leave the town yet again dependent upon Father Haroldson's legendary generosity, and rely solely on him to stock the library. We should all be sure to sit and listen thankfully as he tells us again how much he contributes to the town.

Thank you for setting me straight about all this library business, Father Brax. After all, I am only a scholar, physician, and scribe; what could I possibly know about libraries?

I do seriously recommend the people of Travance take Zafrin up on her offer to exchange stories. Education comes from a wide variety of sources, and what can be learned around a campfire is often that which can never be learned from any book, no matter how great the library.

Best,
Lois Maxwell
Scribe of Kaladonia

As I place each book into the library, it becomes part of some sort of sorcery which makes it mpossible to dessecrate or remove from the room.  I do not know how the Count managed this, but after the rarest of books was stolen from the library, the count moved with alacrity on this matter.  Thus Lois, the books are safe.

Ah, it is done through sorcery? I had known they were protected in some fashion, though not precisely how. Thank you for your input, as always, Father. I was, however, speaking of the need (or lack of need, if we all act on Father Brax's wisdom) to similarly secure any additional libraries. I am certain it would be costly in all manners, if the knowledge to repeat such a ritual is even available to the common librarian.

-Lois

If the books cannot be removed, than why password protect the library itself? unless you are truly trying to limit who may enter?

In many Townships thought the world you have multiple libraries, multiple places of learning and they all benefit from each other's presence. why should it fail here?

Professor Suliman:

As a Scholar, I can attest that we are not known for our physique.  Having a password on the library ensures we aren't attacked by forces who would seek to route out knowledge during our sessions within.  That is my opinion at the least.

In the Name of the Weave

I merely assume it is sorcery, Lois.

As to why the library is "password" protected. please explain what you mean.  As I mentioned, I wrote a sort of memoir, which I called The Art of War.  It had some unique properties and was subsequently either stolen or destroyed.  I am determined it will not happen again.

I believe that until all works possible are acquired there is no purpose in duplicating efforts.  Also, there are some works which must have restricted access, while there are others that are not to be written at all.

I look forward to seeing some of your works in the library in the immediate future.  Also, Professor Suliman, what is it you profess.

Lois,
  Allow me to comment on your message one point at a time.

I ask you not put words in my mouth. When I spoke of libraries within our barony I meant only libraries within our barony and not any other business or institution. The reason for this is that libraries while yes they do require funding to operate as parchment and ink are not free, they are still not the same as the dragons claw inn or the bloody stump. They should not be run at a profit.. They should be run as NOT for profit institutions.

While our dear Jonas said he could leave and return to londwyn as he has seen two Barbarians arguing over books. I see only one Barbarian arguing over books. Moreover even though he said he could not leave I would be astounded if he actually did.

I do not know the password to the baronial library as I have yet to have need to browse the tomes there in. And in most cases if I did there are many other scholars whom I am certain either already Poses the knowledge I would seek or could discover it for me. If at some point however I do need to or am capable of researching things of and for myself I would not share the password with ANYONE. So do not feel it is a slight against you. It is there for a reason and if you wish to know what it is I am certain that the other scholars are aware of it and can share it with you.  

Yes you will need to relinquish your dream of interlibrary loans.
As for having comfortable places it sit and read whilst sipping tea and noshing a bisquit that will be coming sooner than later. The plans for a two story and quite sizable library building are inn the works.

As for escorting you and the other scholars on your adventures to gather funding to supply tomes for the library I have two comments
1) it is not MY duty to assist you in YOUR career unless you decide you wish to take up one of the military arts which I can most definitely assist you in following.
2) if you would like to hire me as an armed escort I would be more than happy to do such. And I am certain that we can come to a mutually beneficial financial arrangement.
Time is money and my time is precious.

As I said in my previous post that I am Quite certain that Fr. Haroldson would be most appreciative if you donated some additions to the library such that the task of filling it was not set squarely and singularly upon his shoulders.

Belegchand makes a gratuitous assumption "As a Scholar, I can attest that we are not known for our physique."  Please, do not attempt to define me by your meager standards.  

Also, I must ask, what makes one a "Loremaster?"  Is it a self-conferred title, or is it earned when Sorcerers  attempt to obtain one's brain as a component?  I'm curious for obvious reasons and would appreciate the benefice of your vast experience in this matter.

    For informational purposes, a Loremaster is title granted to a being who is so skilled at researching that they can expertly identify any item, it's history, how it operates, and other relevent facts.  It is considered by some to be the apex of scholarly endevours. 

  I do ask that people realize the effort and funding that Father Edwin and Amizar put into the various books that are contained in the library, and the graciousness of the Count in making certain that those books will not be stolen from the library.  We are fortunate to have such a resource.  I was unawere that there was a password on the library, if there is, I think it would be best if removed, to allow everyone to enjoy this library.

  Father Brax, as a Chroniclerite I must commend you on your defense of free libraries.  I know your kind is despise magic, and the type of magic used in the library will certainly bar you from ever being able to use it, and your upbringing makes the ability to achieve higher scholarly pursuits impossible; however, you still respect and follow the expansion of the Count's Library with eager anticipation.  It is inspiring.

Father Osred,
    I thank you for your commendation. It is appreciated. Yes to a certain extent I despise magic and when I first came to trance I would say  I even loathed it. However after my time here I have learned to be tolerant of it. And yes I would believe that the magics used in the library would most likely prevent me from ever using it. And yes I am incapable of pursuing higher scholarly endeavors. All that being said I as a leader of my people fully comprehend and appreciate the value of free libraries. Information and knowledge is power as the old adage goes. And so long as information is available to any who seek it the people need not fear tyranny, and if nothing else My people believe in personal freedom (and responsibility) as a defense against tyrants. That being so YES I respect the Count's library and encourage it's development and expansion. I have seen it's use and the scholars ability to research subject be of benefit to the defense of the town by discovering fatal weaknesses in a given enemy. Or even the identity of a given enemy. As a leader of My people and a Warrior I know full well the usefulness of those who can discover such facets of knowledge about my opponents and appreciate them. I encourage the expansion of the library to such a degree that I have offered the Count my skill as a craftsman to aid in the construction of the new library building.
Thank you Father Osred. I am filled with pride that you find myself inspiring.

This has become pointless and a re-hashing of the same concepts over and over again.
Perhaps if a second library doesn't work out the first will accept those tomes I've acquired in my attempt asa donation and a deal might be struck giving academy students password access.

Perhaps not.

Either way an official center of learning is necessary in Travance, capable of accepting Journeymen.

Father Haroldson:

Would you disagree that Scholars are known more for their intellect than their physique?  Because a Scholar who is known for his physique would be quite an interesting specimen.

And, as Father Osred pointed out, my title has been earned by my abilities to identify items expertly.  It is a title that many choose to ignore in fear of their brains being taken from them, or their bodies turned into ash and placed in an urn.  I, however, am proud of this accomplishment, and thus refuse to hide who I truly am.  I hide behind no masks.



As to the concept of multiple libraries, as a Chroniclerite, I feel that Knowledge should be spread to all.  If multiple libraries are formed, both with free admission, I do not see a problem.  I, for one, have been making codices that will not be added to the current library, but instead stored in the Mage's Guild as it seemed more appropriate to place Arcane Codices in a place where all Guildmembers can easily have access to them, especially since any who can create Scrolls or Ballads are, by their very study of it, a member of the Guild.




Professor Suliman,

Your dream is possible.  If there is anything I have learned since being in Travance, it is that anything is possible.

In the Name of the Weave,

By placing codices in the Mages' Guild, you are denying access to many. I abhor restrictions on knowledge based on one's profession.  I will have to ruminate on this unpleasant development.

Father Haroldson:

How are placing Arcane Codices, which by their very nature cannot be used by those outside of Mage's Guild jurisdiction, within the Guild denying the access any more than placing them in the Baronial Libary?  It is not a Manuscript by which anyone can learn from, but a tool for Arcane and Bardic scholars to help craft Scrolls and Ballads.  Additionally, I spend most of my time in the Guild Hall anyway, and as I do intend on utilizing these codices myself, I would like to easily have access to them.  There is no restriction to knowledge present any more than there is for codices normally, which is that only Scholars can properly utilize the texts in the first place!

And, I know the retort that someone will provide, that my kinsmen can also craft Scrolls, and I can ensure you, if ever a fellow Quinyarian asks to use my codices, I would be more than happy to allow them to.

In the Name of the Weave,