The Truth About “Duke Edgar Balliol”

11 Dec 2019 12:26 - 11 Dec 2019 13:01 #31 by Khala Stormbringer (Jymme)
Replied by Khala Stormbringer (Jymme) on topic The Truth About “Duke Edgar Balliol”
I was trying to find a good place to put this and unearthed this stack of papers. I have more information about Baliol.

As most know, Eden was taken by Baliol last moon and returned to us at the Winterdark Ball. I had tea with her the other week and I learned a few things and she is okay with me sharing this. The most important being that, in a way, there are currently two of them.

The best I can gather from my talk with her is that it seems Baliol was so conflicted over whether or not to kill the True Warlock that it caused a split in his personality and an entirely separate consciousness. The one that wanted to work with the True Warlock won over the other, and so the one that wanted to kill the True Warlock has locked itself away in a mindscape.

From what she told me, this other aspect of him seems to be a bit more polite and able to be talked with. Dirge and Eden are both currently linked to this other consciousness while the other Psions with mind spikes seem to all be linked to the Baliol currently in control. This second Baliol doesn't seem to care if we destroy the body in the attempt to defeat the one currently in control. He also seems to have other minds in the mindscape with him. People that sought protection from the war.

I have a few theories I am trying to confirm right now, but I wanted to get this information out to others.

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Last edit: 11 Dec 2019 13:01 by Lois Heimdell (LoisMaxwell).
11 Dec 2019 15:37 #32 by Moostrav Potrevski ()
Replied by Moostrav Potrevski () on topic The Truth About “Duke Edgar Balliol”
Oh?
We heard of this, when Dirge was pompously swinging around his affliction like a vestige.... We didn't believe him.
But Paladins do not lie, and objects such as humunculi can't lie without initiative to do so.

Would be nice to get a look at him. Would be nice to see one so similar to our affliction.Would be nice to pull him apart and understand more.
We hope you all don't kill him. Not just yet....

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11 Dec 2019 17:52 #33 by Tom P (Father Ridigan)
Replied by Tom P (Father Ridigan) on topic The Truth About “Duke Edgar Balliol”
I'm sorry, what did I do now?

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11 Dec 2019 20:19 - 11 Dec 2019 20:28 #34 by Eden Heimdell (amalthea)
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Homunculi aren't objects. I'm not an object. We're people, like you are.
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11 Dec 2019 22:03 #35 by Verrill Lebastion (Wellby)
Replied by Verrill Lebastion (Wellby) on topic The Truth About “Duke Edgar Balliol”
HEY NAYBOR,

YEH IS' TRU- I SEEN IT- Homonculus PEOPLE AR PEOPLE AND OUR NAYBORS AND EVEN A FEWS OF EM IS VALOSIAN.

YER NAYBOR
RATCATCHER GENERAL
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11 Dec 2019 22:42 #36 by Raine G. Darkmore (The Traitor Elf)
Replied by Raine G. Darkmore (The Traitor Elf) on topic The Truth About “Duke Edgar Balliol”
Moostrav, Homunculus are not objects.
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12 Dec 2019 09:45 #37 by Donald MacFhionnlaigh (raidr0933)
Replied by Donald MacFhionnlaigh (raidr0933) on topic The Truth About “Duke Edgar Balliol”
could we separate the two, put mind spiker Balliol into another body, kill it, and then leave the non mind spiker Balliol in command of his own body?

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12 Dec 2019 09:57 #38 by Khala Stormbringer (Jymme)
Replied by Khala Stormbringer (Jymme) on topic The Truth About “Duke Edgar Balliol”
They both have created mind spikes. Although the second one only has two and apparently is super polite about it. Eden mentioned that he only watches/listens through her when she says it's okay. But the second one doesn't care if we kill the one currently in control and if the body is destroyed. I think that he may have a plan if that happens.

My concern is what PARTS of him split. What aspects of his personality went with which half. This second one SEEMS decent, and I want to believe that it is the better parts of him. The parts that Ser Tristram saw in him and is the reason they were friends. But we don't know for sure.


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12 Dec 2019 15:29 #39 by Donald MacFhionnlaigh (raidr0933)
Replied by Donald MacFhionnlaigh (raidr0933) on topic The Truth About “Duke Edgar Balliol”
allow me to rephrase.
Asshole Balliol and Non Asshole Balliol.

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12 Dec 2019 20:09 #40 by Moostrav Potrevski ()
Replied by Moostrav Potrevski () on topic The Truth About “Duke Edgar Balliol”
No no. Both still wanted to start this war. You are mistaken.

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12 Dec 2019 20:54 #41 by Donald MacFhionnlaigh (raidr0933)
Replied by Donald MacFhionnlaigh (raidr0933) on topic The Truth About “Duke Edgar Balliol”
Can you confirm this, Moostrav? Or was Balliol under sway, and not in his own mind when the declaration went out?

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12 Dec 2019 20:57 #42 by Khala Stormbringer (Jymme)
Replied by Khala Stormbringer (Jymme) on topic The Truth About “Duke Edgar Balliol”
From what I understand the second Baliol doesn't want to conquer everything like the current one. I believe it was mentioned he wanted to essentially secede with a small section and make his own land. However from my conversation with Eden it seems this second Baliol is more open to reason.

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12 Dec 2019 22:10 #43 by Donald MacFhionnlaigh (raidr0933)
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Eden's young now. Could he be fooling her?

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13 Dec 2019 01:39 #44 by Liz (Liz)
Replied by Liz (Liz) on topic The Truth About “Duke Edgar Balliol”
Regardless of the extent of it, he still planned to commit treason against the Count who is currently speaking for the Throne. He had plans to do this and then met the True Warlock. And apparently had this mental... split. He should be treated as such and held if it is the Count's wish to stand trial.

If he dies by accident (which could actually happen on a battlefield- lets face it, in the dark sometimes things go awry) or is mortally injured, we have healers and resurrectors on the battlefield.

The only thing from this pile of papers that I am beginning to suspect is that people are thinking of trying to talk to him? Talk him out of fighting perhaps? Or... turn a personality against another? Can that even happen?

-Allyce

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13 Dec 2019 06:28 - 13 Dec 2019 08:23 #45 by Ilana Darkwood (Ilana_Darkwood)
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Polite treason is still treason. Please be careful with all of this. An empowered psion can break out of basically anything and we don't need a mini Jonathan Travance or crazed Esper running around. I am trying to still figure out how we're supposed to capture him.

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13 Dec 2019 08:01 #46 by Ephrem (bamore62)
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Having plans would amount to conspiracy to do treason. Actualizing those plans would be treason itself, in addition to the other numerous crimes committed. They should certainly not be treated with the same punitive measures. Both are criminals against the Kingdom, though, one being magnitudes more than the other.

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13 Dec 2019 09:16 #47 by Liz (Liz)
Replied by Liz (Liz) on topic The Truth About “Duke Edgar Balliol”
Father,

With all due respect, according to Keladry, he had plans and he intended to enact them. He apparently still does (hence the "He seems more reasonable and doesn't want to conquer the world. Just take a part of it for himself"). We don't have a timetable for this. We have no idea if he had started to do this before he "split" or not. And honestly, I'm with Lady Ilana. He is dangerous. He has been proven to be dangerous to us and to others. What I am concerned about is that people will take this information and try to "reason" with him. I will try to bring him in alive because that is the order that was given me. However, if I have to kill him because he is too dangerous to just be brought in? My loyalty is to these people and I would rather not have them injured or worse because we want to reason with someone that cannot be.

-Allyce

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13 Dec 2019 09:41 #48 by Naranbaatar Aiki (aikichi)
Replied by Naranbaatar Aiki (aikichi) on topic The Truth About “Duke Edgar Balliol”
Everyone,

Please remember that if he is killed we run the risk of him becoming a Martyr which will increase the chances of a protracted war and cells of resistance. If you truly wish to see an end to this all. He must be tried fairly in the courts as well surrender himself to cease the hostilities destablizing our kingdom. Exposure of his very nature will lend to our cause and if he were to enact violence during the proceedings than a firm stroke of justice will be executed. This is a political prisoner and not just some rabble that reared its head from under a rock. As such this situation demands great attention and respect.

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13 Dec 2019 09:47 #49 by Moostrav Potrevski ()
Replied by Moostrav Potrevski () on topic The Truth About “Duke Edgar Balliol”
Allyce,
We appreciate your diligence, but in what is due, you should still pay mind to the treat we are about to make.

To all who treat these Duke's as separate people,
Time and time again we have never been refereed to, by this town, as separate individuals in this regards. We where tried and executed, wrongly, under the guise that just one of us may have committed a crime. Time and time again, we are told insanity does not excuse a crime in your lands here. When this applies to us, we don't question it; though we will question everything else about you lot. What you say here paints you as the most pathetic and hypocritical of creatures we have EVER laid eyes upon.

We don't care who speaks up to say "Moostrav go away" after we say this. We wont afford that individual the mercy of even acknowledging their action.

Somewhere here you all mistook order for the arbitrary concept of"good", and now your the crazy one. You forgot the men who share a body among you, and how they have been treated. It is not the treatment we are screaming about here, but the willful ignorance to the difference in how we, versus this Duke, are approached in reference to our state of existence.

If you dare try and charge these men separably Travance. You will regret it.

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13 Dec 2019 09:54 #50 by Hayley Virgil (HayleyAnnV)
Replied by Hayley Virgil (HayleyAnnV) on topic The Truth About “Duke Edgar Balliol”
I'd nearly forgotten about this stack of papers. But seeing as it's getting some attention again, I want to throw in my two coppers on the matter. Let me start by saying this man turned my parents and my people into POWs and hostages. I watched my mother come within an inch of execution at this man's hands. The duke has committed countless heinous acts that he needs to answer for but executing him like a dog in the street would make our actions no different from his.

He needs to be captured alive, if possible, to face the count's justice and properly answer for his crimes against Kormyre and her people. Should the results of that trial come to execution, then at least we acted under the purviews of our laws. If we cut him down without a second thought, we prove right the fears and negative rumors circulating among the people of our kingdom. The duke has a lot of people convinced that Travance is full of monsters. We should endeavor to prove that wrong.

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13 Dec 2019 10:02 #51 by Liz (Liz)
Replied by Liz (Liz) on topic The Truth About “Duke Edgar Balliol”
I don’t believe anything I said or wrote or have said seems to indicate I’m out to kill this person “without a second thought.” In fact, I do believe that I stated that I would try to bring him in alive. I also stated earlier that if the worst happens, we have the means to resurrect him or heal him if necessary.

What I also stated is that I don’t want people in this town to take this information and act like this person is a “good person” deep down inside and that they can reach it. I want them to treat him like they should- he is dangerous. He should not be disregarded. He should be treated like the threat he is. I do not want people fighting for him on our battlefield because they think he can be redeemed because of a second personality that was still treasonous.

- Allyce

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13 Dec 2019 10:25 #52 by Hayley Virgil (HayleyAnnV)
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My comments are directed to the whole, not any one person. But I'm glad to hear that we're in agreement.

-Odette D. Lucatiel

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13 Dec 2019 10:25 #53 by Moostrav Potrevski ()
Replied by Moostrav Potrevski () on topic The Truth About “Duke Edgar Balliol”
Ahhh Odette,
You would call us a dog? Fun fun, cousin says I get to play with you in the end then?

Would not every other time you lot have done such reinforce their opinions. A dog that always bites, but does not one time, is still a dog that always bites. Look at your forefathers. Dirty, Bloody, Paladin. Change is expressed over a waft of time, you are... too late to change some opinions.

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13 Dec 2019 10:28 #54 by Khala Stormbringer (Jymme)
Replied by Khala Stormbringer (Jymme) on topic The Truth About “Duke Edgar Balliol”
As much as I want Baliol to pay immediately for his crimes, I know that a trial is in order and the best way to do this.

However my problem is this... How do you try someone that is no longer a whole person? The Baliol we will be fighting and capturing on the field is honestly just a monster. A tyrant that just wants to subjugate us all to his whims. I don't believe there is any remorse in there and I am under the impression that the other half of him isn't actually in there anymore, but I could be wrong and I don't know how to tell. All I know is that it is locked away in a mindscape somewhere. Do we need both for a fair trial to happen? Do we find the second personality and try them separately?

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13 Dec 2019 10:29 #55 by Byron Qua (byronqua)
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All,
You all speak as if this battle has already been won and we are splitting the spoils. There is time for trial and tribulation. With all due respect, escpeicslly the knight I am in service to, WE NEED TO FOCUS ON THE TASK AT HAND.

On my honor,

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13 Dec 2019 10:43 #56 by Hayley Virgil (HayleyAnnV)
Replied by Hayley Virgil (HayleyAnnV) on topic The Truth About “Duke Edgar Balliol”
Moostrav,

I believe there is some confusion here, as I've clearly stated that we should be against treating our opponents like animals. I also wasn't referring to you in any of my statements. I'm not sure where you're taking an issue with us treating our prisoners of war humanely but I'm open to discussion in person, should you have further concerns.

Keladry,

I believe the Duke's mental state should be taken into consideration during the trial. As a matter of fact, it might help us understand why the situation played out the way it did. But just because it helps us understand why doesn't necessarily mean that it excuses anything. We need every fact laid out clearly including how his mentality played into the timeline of events. Should that excuse his actions? Not necessarily. But it's our duty to do our best to lay out every fact and overlook nothing to best help the count make the final decision about the duke's fate. Does that make sense?

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13 Dec 2019 11:16 #57 by Naranbaatar Aiki (aikichi)
Replied by Naranbaatar Aiki (aikichi) on topic The Truth About “Duke Edgar Balliol”
All,

Let me be clear. If at any point in time I see ANY aggression towards each other discipline will be excuted with extreme prejudice. Additionally I will personally see to it you are deemed criminal in owned lands under the flag of Kormyre. I care not for idle threats to any person under any pretense especially during wartime where these aggressions should appropriatly be directed to the enemy at hand.

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13 Dec 2019 11:34 #58 by Aleister (Aleister)
Replied by Aleister (Aleister) on topic The Truth About “Duke Edgar Balliol”
Aiki,
This is the duty of the guard to uphold the law within the barony, please allow them to perform it. Tensions are running high. This is a very decisive battle and I would rather see we all show the hand of compassion to one another. We needn't encourage aggressive action.

If you see your fellow subjects turning aggressive, first find the cause. In times like these, the pain of war manifests in ways we aren't accustomed to. But if a law is broken, make the guard aware and it will be handled not with prejudice, but fair justice. Fear is the tool of the oppressor and the tyrant. This kingdom, and this Barony, will see victory without its use against our own.

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13 Dec 2019 12:03 #59 by Moostrav Potrevski ()
Replied by Moostrav Potrevski () on topic The Truth About “Duke Edgar Balliol”
Ahh Odette,
After reading your comments not addressed to us, we’ll take back those comments for now. He was reading it wrong, and got angry. Give us a minute to explain to him your not suggesting we change them separate, this always takes a while.

Kelendry,
You charge them the same as you’ve charged others of the same. Don’t play advocate for something you can’t understand.

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13 Dec 2019 12:10 - 13 Dec 2019 12:11 #60 by Seth (Kurteth)
Replied by Seth (Kurteth) on topic The Truth About “Duke Edgar Balliol”
Moostrav is right.

Balliol is one body. If we charge them differently than every single person with mumtiple...."thems" inside must be charged individually.

It doesn't matter if the "good Balliol" is so sorry for the thousands of people he has helped Enzarond and Val'Ixtal Vai murder and subjugate in cold blood.

His head should roll.

Seth

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