Being "Common"

***NOT CAELVAN***

After speaking with someone about where the below posting was originally I have moved it to be here instead of it's original position.
This is still a response to a posting on the postings remembering four people.

-M

((OOG: The top of this paper is ripped, it looks like it would match the rip on the "In Remembrance of Julie"))

**NOT CAELVAN**

Pardon me but I disagree. I don't think being called "common" is a compliment. I think of it as an insult. A "common" person is someone who doesn't have a higher calling in life and wants nothing else except to go through the cycle of life leading to death having no impact on the lives around them. For example the mundane smiths. They exist don't tell me they don't. Many don't further their calling on working with anything except the mundane materials and they are considered "common" they have no drive to further themselves in their art. The view is that they become "uncommon" when they start furthering their knowledge past that.

I have seen many of the "Heroes of Travance" have or talk about trades that they do. I have heard of smiths that are carpenters for furniture, rangers that are hunters for hides. They clearly show that you can be "uncommon" and still be a person to further living by making chairs and hides for clothes or materials.

Also if you wish to celebrate the wonderful aspect of being "common" then why are we paying homage to these four? Why these four over all of them? Especially in my view that they are in fact not "common" but "uncommon". The ability to stand to the Demon Prince that ravaged this world is a very uncommon thing to do. So tell me again? Why do we consider these four [strike]commoners?[/strike] common people?

There are many [strike]commoners[/strike] common people in this world as you can see all over. You can't celebrate both these four [strike]commoners[/strike] common people and then at the same time say all [strike]commoners[/strike] common people are wonderful.

Don't think I don't know what I am talking about. When I was younger I saw the people around me who stepped up away from the mundane, away from being "common". I looked at them and got that drive, the drive to further my learning beyond being a simple glass blower's apprentice to train to do that job for the rest of my life. I learned things that I needed to in order to become something more, something that is highly regarded from where I am from. So did everyone in Travance. You can't tell me at no point in your life you were not "common". We all started there and we all had the drive to further ourselves in our learning.

When furthering your learning to go to a higher calling is common in the world, THAT is when I will think being "common" is a compliment and being "uncommon" as an insult. Until that time I will consider being called "common" an insult that simply says you are unlearned in your life and you didn't further your knowledge. Just going through the motions of life and dying. If that is what you wish Dominic then yes, you can be called common and go to simply making chairs and hunting hides. I will instead further my learning to become one of the most uncommon people in this world. I hope others follow in my footsteps.


-M

I have read your argument and I respectfully disagree. I have spent a lot of time in Travanse and I have heard of many stories in Travanses history that shows that the power the "Heroes of Travanse" obtain and use to grow is miss used and abused for self. I have even seen those with power they obtained in Travanse become corrupted and use their power for personal gain and prejudice. Political, magical, physical, and any other type of power can corrupt even the best of people. And in this swirling vortex of raw power known as Travanse many good, honest people have taken to do evil things yet remain a "hero". We are not heroes, we are not good people. We are Travancians.

The people who don't want power, who don't need it. Those who go day by day doing what they can, everything they do having an impact on those around them. The farmer who tills the fields for harvest, the scribe who takes down history, the carpenter who creates benches, the weaver who creates clothes, and the hunter who hunts for food in the forest. These are true heroes, for what they do is essential for the survival of all. They help others and keep each other alive without desiring anything more than just payment for a hard days labor. The kind, honest, "common" people are the true form of good in the world.

***NOT CAELVAN***

Dominic I never said to learn makes you a hero of Travance, nor did I say that it doesn't corrupt. I simply pointed to the fact that even the uncommon people have trades that do exactly what the "common" people do. Therefore learning more and being what is now uncommon you can do a mundane task as well. You don't need power to further knowledge.

A druid can farm the land better than a common farmer by making things grow faster, a scribe can write better if he is a scholar, a smith can be a carpenter or do mundane smithing tasks while having the knowledge to work with higher things, a ranger can hunt while he is serving the land. All the points you have mentioned can be done by the uncommon people just as well if not better than the common people doing them right now.

The problem is no one wants to further their knowledge so they can't do it better. You don't need power, you just need the knowledge. They are not the same thing, as much as you think they are.

I can't tell you how many times I have seen farmers come to druids to cure their crops. They wouldn't have to do that if they had the drive to be druids themselves.

The [strike]commoner[/strike] common people aren't the true heroes that you say they are. They are just don't wish to, or have the drive to learn more.

Speaking the truth,
-M

I believe being a Commoner and being Common are two different things.

M, you are accurate about your description of someone who is Common. If they truly do not try to be better, that is unacceptable.

However, a Commoner is a person with little to begin with. They often do try, the world just pushes against them sometimes. But, they still try. I have seen a slave become a Templar in Travance, and he had absolutely nothing to start with.

I am not Common, my blood literally dictates that to be impossible and I have learned to flourish from it. However, I was certainly a Commoner when I arrived in Travance.

Make sense?
-Ilana

***NOT CAELVAN***
My mistake. I meant to write on my postings common people thank you for pointing that out so that I may fix my postings.

-M

Let me inform you of a lesson I learned rather quickly in my time. For every light their is shadow, for every good their is evil. The farms that need a druid to cure, were only like that because of a dark druid plaguing it. A smith can just as easily destroy created objects since he knows how they are made. Scholars can just as easily write false information while a scribe is payed for truth. These people who learn to advance themselves are in no way better than the common person.

And let us not forget about others who seek to advance themselves, the thief, the brute, the assassin, the torturer, all people with a goal to become better and further themselves, while doing nothing but creating chaos and hurting the every day man. This "drive to be better" can and has more often then not caused harm to many people. That same drive for knowledge, can also be the death of many.

***NOTCAELVAN***

Is it not possible that the farmer picked a field that is not fertile and therefore needs a druid to make things grow?
Is it not right to destroy objects created to make new ones that are better?
Is it not possible for a scribe to also write lies?

All three of those situations can be reversed to support either argument.

As to the others seeking to advance themselves I invite you to talk to a warrior of chaos, or even a scholar that knows about chaos. I am sure they will tell you chaos is necessary. Good needs Evil. Light needs Dark. Life needs Death. All this is true.

Not all things can be good otherwise what kind of world would we live in? The guardsmembers will be out of work with no crime to deal with, as would knights without the need to protect the leaders of a kingdom. Everything would change and fall out of balance so yes these people should also further themselves.

As for leading to the death of many. Death is part of the cycle. If Galmachis deems it their life to come to an end then so be it. Many people fear death. It is the path of a cycle and leads to the next cycle.

Just in case you think I am some person who doesn't know what I'm talking about referring to death allow me to finally finish my name on the bottom of this posting.

In truth,
-Merikh
Priest of Galmachis

You do not even need to use the words Chaos, you can simply call it change, maybe even chance.

Dominic, the world fails if left to stagnation. What you are describing is stagnation.

This place exists because people wanted to know more. Many places exist because of drive, the spark of curiosity, the need to create.

You're absolutely right, power can be a terrible thing. It can lead to ruin and death. Mass destruction.

But, if you think it is better no one tries... then none of us would exist as we do. Many of the races and civilizations would have wiped themselves out long ago by now.

People can be liars and betrayers and hurt you in more ways than I care to list here. You will meet all of those people and they will do all of those things to you in your lifetime. But, you need to learn not everyone is like that. They can start off as a carpenter, realize one day they can be so much more, and then thrive to be a benevolent soul who helps everyone they can.

It's a hard lesson to learn, that powerful people can be good, especially for the most stubborn of us. However, it is not an impossible achievement. I know you are unwell and that is partly why you write these things. Hopefully after this feast we can have a proper discussion.

Just understand, people must have a desire to learn and a drive to succeed to be able to survive.

-Ilana

Common. Uncommon. Everyone dies. Everyone suffers. Some are arbitrarily assigned more worth.

Did you try to bring these fallen martyrs you so praise through the Focus?
Did you give them a second chance at life as you would one of the other "uncommon" people here?
Or did you leave them cold in the ground so their martyrdom would serve as a more poignant lesson?

Pat yourselves on the back as much as you like.
What makes your lives special enough to warrant cheating death while you let others die in the fields?
The value of life is subjective.
How much is yours worth?

-S

I have something written up on a theory of how the Focus works and why it is not possible to bring everyone back. Though, that is not quite what this subject is about. I requested it be moved specifically because this statement was not about those who had died but a generalization that would spark more debate.

However, if you are actually interested in the topic of the Focus and bringing/not bringing people back, you can find me. I have had to explain it to people before trying to bring their loved ones back from the dead where it was impossible. It can be upsetting, they yell a lot sometimes, but I have a feeling you would not.

The value of a life is subjective, but I think it is important for one to try living. Living can be a lot more fun than being alive anyways.

-Ilana
*added in different ink*
P.S. I agree with 'some are arbitrarily assigned more worth.' to an extent. Depends on what you exactly mean. But, that's a discussion to have in person and not on permanent record if you'd like! It doesn't quite go along with this subject

Ilana

This "progress" you speak about, how many people have died for the sake of "progress?" I understand the desire to better oneself however to many lives have been lost for the sake of "progress" for its search to be considered more important than the common person. No progress could have been made without the men and women who build the kingdom. If you ask me, the butcher and the baker are more important than the person who is figuring out how to better kill someone.

Dominic,

The butcher and baker are extremely important, you're right. I'm not talking about killing people when I speak of progress. You are focusing on that topic of your own volition.

Yes, people get hurt and die when a civilization progresses. But, if that civilization did not progress, a lot more people would be dead.

How do you think the first of the Physicians started? It wasn't among a populace of healthy and well living folks, that's for sure. Try and imagine a world without physicians for a moment. I know there's healers and I can't do everything they can but they cannot do everything I can either. Imagine your own position if I was not capable of what I can do.

My profession required illness and death to progress, but I am not a murderer as a result. I keep people alive and generally healthy with my knowledge.

Now, if you can get off the topic of death and understand that is not what we're talking about, I think this conversation can be a bit more productive.

-Ilana

***NOT CAELVAN***
Also the man who "is figuring out how to kill someone" could be doing so for expansion so that the area he is in is not becoming over crowded so starvation can not be all over the place. Which could in the end cause more death than his plan.

Anytime you bring up a person or profession I am warning you now it can be flipped around and used for the other side of the argument.

-Merikh

Its a matter of talents. Its a matter of skill sets. What these talents and skills are is entirely subjective. In the winter, when beasts have recoiled back to their holes and blankets of snow smother the land, the farmer with his harvest, and the carpenter with his strong walls are the "Heroes".

I have lived in poverty, I have lived in opulence, and I have been personally chosen by Arawyn to shoulder power both great and terrible. I have seen both sides of the phocus. Every time I arrive in Travance I laugh, eat, and drink less then a stones throw away from where I died. I am not the Verrill many of you first knew, I'm better then him. I'm the Verrill who you can trust when he says Don't Run. None of us exist on purpose, nobody belongs anywhere, one day everyone is going to die. Now lets stop debating meaningless social barriers that divide us, and share a drink, a story, a laugh, and live while there is still life to be had.

Ilana

If we are going to talk about progress lets talk about progress in its entirety. You prefer to look at the good sides of progress and advancements. But even though I will agree that advancements in physician abilities is actually good for everyone. I happen to know a few people who would agree that advancements in Londowyn technology is in fact causing more problems and destroying nature. To most druids and rangers I would like to think that they see the loss and death of nature just as important. Not all progress can help.

***NOT CAELVAN***

If you wish to look at progress in it's entirety then you can't look at one race of people and say that progress is bad. You are the opposite side of her argument Dominic. She speaks of the positive sides of the argument and you speak on the negative there is no entirety discussion here. If you want to look at its entirety then look at my statement again. I'm sure that a druid or ranger will disagree but the harming of nature needs to occur for the balance of nature to happen. Nature needs to be harmed before it can be cured. Otherwise what will the druids and rangers cure if the world you want exists?

Everything needs balance, including the impact progress has on this world.

-Merikh

I was merely mentioning the Londowyns as an example. Progress takes sacrifice, sacrifices that I don't neccessarily agree with. But without the tailor and the barmaid we wouldn't have the chance to even dream about progress because there would be nothing to progress.

The common folk are more important than most people give them credit. A captain without his soldiers is nothing more than a man with a the word "captain" in his name.

Common sense isn't common. Common people are not common either.

I was a common Mercenary. Then I found I was Dragoon. Then, at that time I was willing to be the common, Mercenary but with the change in label I was special. I was still the same person as I still am now but changed. What is assigned to me by others is what they see me as. Guardsmember Dragoon Commander Birgitta Hero Smith former Mercenary all fit and all are me. Some common some uncommon. Circumstances make changes too and those changes can be very potent.

Position assigned made me think to truly become a Master Warrior. I had been thinking otherwise but in acceptance of position came a requirement self imposed to improve that part of myself.

This too is progress. Progress means to move forward. Two steps forward and one and a half back is still progress. Change brings death and I don't mean slay or murder death but the little death of what was prior to the change. When it's a collapse of the worlds pancaking and trying to drive us into the fire the progress is that one and a half steps back but is still progress.

Change forced and how we react and then act makes all the difference as to whether we are common or uncommon or special. I would say all who survived be it by luck skill or placement are uncommon and some are special. How old is your soul? How powerful your zest for life? How does one rate such things? Is an older soul more or less powerful? Do you see it as old weak and tired giving up with no reason to return to try again? Or do you see an old soul filled with lives long past fueling the life of today? More importantly... Does it matter? If do why?

I could say I'm a simple soldier. Am I?

As to Travance. This land is old soul by both definitions above. It's more civilized because of the culture and structures imposed. I remember when the guard were simply the best fighters the town had test responded not to the letter of the Law but to the spirit of it and what was deemed right. In many ways they still do but...That is to say politics while present were not as structured because Travance was more wild. Many many thieves assassins vagabonds common people with list families came here to work to become more. Thus every farmer's tilling that field came from someone uncommon. They came across the rift in a time where such was perilous where sorcery didn't blink of an eye you place to place and where death stalked in unknown quantity just out of the range of your eyes.

Travance has progressed from a foothold to a battle hold to functioning countyship. So has it's beginning families and people be they common or not.

It is true that we are all different. Marcus the baker is different from Andrew the butcher. We are all different in our own right, but that is not what I am talking about.

Being a commoner means being apart of the strongest guild in any kingdom. Being a commoner means that you help with every thing you contribute and everything you do you help make the kingdom of Kormyre as a whole. Now as to avoid anyone from getting the wrong ideas from my words and causing trouble for me, but I will say this as my final thought. A king without his people, is just a man in expensive cloth.

***NOT CAELVAN***

It is true. A ruler without people is a man in expensive cloth. No one is refuting that a king needs his people.

What I AM refusing is the being "common" is a compliment. Notice Dominic I am saying being common, NOT commoner as Ilana helped everyone realize that part earlier. Maybe you should read words more carefully next time hmm?

Now to your point of being the strongest guild. Who is to say the mage or bard in the mages guild can't be the baker? I have been told of a bard who is a baker. Does this person not fulfill BOTH your definition of common and my definition of being uncommon? This bard learned the art of helping people with their voice AND is a baker.
Being part of the strongest guild can mean many things. It could mean you just have the most people. If that is the case Dominic then that is sad and we need to fix it.

Who says this butcher can't also be Andrew the ranger who gets his meat from the forest?

Remember. My definition of uncommon is a person who wishes to further themselves to a higher calling. Birgitta was a common mercenary. Then she found she was a dragoon. She could have stayed common. Not furthered her knowledge of the skills of that and remained common. But she didn't.

How many dragoons are there that are like Birgitta? How many healers or psions that don't know they have these energies in them and can't further themselves? These people are "common" without knowing they are in fact uncommon.

Think of these people in your next posting. Think of them as common people and not "commoners". For if being common is an insult, just saying you have no drive to further yourself, then being a commoner is a larger insult because being a commoner would mean you are nothing. Being a commoner would mean you can't become something more. I don't believe that. I believe, from personal experience that every common person can have the drive and ability to learn more.

In fact I will prove how much I believe this. I say to any common person reading this posting. Come to me. Come to me and I will find you a teacher if I can't do it myself. Come to me to further yourselves and join those that are at this moment labeled uncommon.

Come to me and join us in knowledge. Don't let the god I worship keep you away. As you can see I'm on your side. Not like your books claim what I am. I am a friend. I am a teacher. I am a priest. Think of me as these things.

I will be in the proper late Thursday night and most of next weeks end for anyone seeking me out.

In truth,
Merikh
Priest of Galmachis ,friend, teacher of the common man

And who says rangers and mages are not common in of themselves. I would say with the amount of rangers and mages I have seen that that particular path is a common one.

As to the common people being the most powerful guild, I mean that the guild of the common folk makes up the entire kingdom. Every person who calls themselves a Kormyrian is apart of the guild of commoners in Kormyre.

Remember, my definition of uncommon is someone who decides to go further into "progress" or try and gain more power.

If we label psions and healers as "uncommon" it is considering them not normal when in fact they are. They are gifted common people who can use these abilities. We shouldn't make others feel like outcasts because they are gifted from birth.

I am one who has an "uncommon" life and I have lived it for only a few years so far and already it has claimed the lives of many who I loved. Their are times when I look up at night and think as to how much I would love to go back to the days when I was common. A peaceful life only needing what I need to survive. I never wanted any of this, I am envious of those who are common for I was not given a choice to be who I am today. I used to dream of sitting on a porch after an honest days work, drinking a bottle of ale, watching my kids play before my loving wife calls everyone in for dinner. Now my mind is plagued with nightmares of those who I have killed and all those who wish me dead. So I really don't have much care for your opinion on being called common, I find being common to be peaceful and happy.

*Not Oakroot*
I see this post growing in size, however it's message still hasn't changed. This debate of semantics is doing nothing for the "common man" nor for the "heroes". What is more important is better ourselves as individual and defining who and what you are. Some may be considered heroes other will disagree, mortals disagree over silly things it's what we do. We also create, love, and adapt. If we should learn anything from this its we are all different in belief, appearance, and ideology embrace it and better ourselves before we decide to define others.

In the name of differences,
Yuvgeniy Amari

I suggest you finish this conversation across a table from each other with a few drinks between you. No ink, blades or spells. Just drinks, words, and ideas. I don't want to see this devolve from a debate to an argument any further. It has already started to slip in that direction, and I wish to help you keep from doing so in such a public setting.

-Oren

I am going to request that this remain open discussion. There has been little in the way of name calling and violent words. I feel the topic is enlightening and should not be stifled.


Please continue.

[strike]Not to continue as the Squire has requested,[/strike]

I have spoken with Merikh and we're in agreement. If you cannot find him, you can come to me for assistance. I will also help him find the necessary teachers if he does not know who to locate. This will be a joint effort between the two of us.
---
But, I am done writing as Merikh and I would be somewhat repetitive and as I understand Dominic's demeanor, do not wish to press on it.

Though, I would add I was not trying to show only the positive side to progress, I was simply noting death was necessary and was trying to move away from 'progress' and back to why Commoners are valued but do not need to be considered 'Common'. But, I did not go into much more detail so I understand where the misinterpretation came from, sorry for that.

However, I would like to thank those that have contributed, it is rare I am interested in writing publicly in any manner.

-Ilana

You are right Oren. Until my last message involving this argument their had been no emotion in my words. However when all is said and done I can still respect Merikhs opinion because I can tell it is a well thought out and intelligent opinion. In the end all this boils down to is our opposing opinions on a certain use of a word. So even if we disagree I can honestly say that I can respect Merikh and I hope that I get the same respect from him on the subject.

Dominic,
Are you referring to the rangers and mages in Travance? These things maybe common here, however think of the other side of the Rift. In Kormyre, are there not more common people than uncommon? Take our home. How many glassblowers, scribes, carpenters have the potential to be something more? You must think of the world as a whole. Not just this small piece of it.

Your definition of uncommon is fine, however does this mean that your lord wishes to gain power? Do YOU wish to gain power? Or do you both seek knowledge? There will be the few who use this knowledge to gain power, but why stop knowledge because of the few?

I never said psions, healers, and dragoons were uncommon. I actually said the opposite. They are common unless they accept and learn more of their bloodline. As much as we don’t want to call them special, they are. They are born with the potential to learn greater in their body than others. However the cost of this is that they have no real excuse for not becoming uncommon since being common for them means rejecting their birthright and gifts.

Don’t you go saying you were forced to have an uncommon life and didn’t have any other choice. You ALWAYS had a choice. The people who plague your nightmares, you could have stopped, you could have said “Oh maybe I should stop this.” You could have left at anytime, in fact, if that is the case I encourage you to go back home. Find a woman, get married, have a few kids and be common. That is your choice. YOU choose to stay here. YOU choose to be uncommon and the people who haunt your nightmares are on you. You could have changed at anytime, as is shown by your vow, but you CHOSE not to.

The age of the unlearned is over. The age of the common is over. I encourage once again anyone who wishes to learn to please seek Ilana or I out and learn. Take part in this new age.

Take part in the Age of Enlightenment.

Thank you,
Merikh
Priest of Galmachis, Teacher, Friend

-an article from a previous edition of the chronicle is tacked on-

Change and Chaos.

I would like to preface this with chaos is something that means something different to everyone. If you ask a fellow Chaos Warrior what chaos is they may not have the exact same answer as I do. This is the nature of Chaos.

With Arawyn seemingly thrown into chaos many neglect to see what this state of the world can bring for the future. Chaos is integral for change to happen. For most of you, you only see chaos in it’s destructive form. You see it as what killed so many of Arawyn. You see it as something that cannot be controlled and sometimes that is correct, sometimes, nothing can stop chaos. In order to have the order that so many of you desire, you need chaos and the disorder it causes. However, there are aspects of chaos that many don’t realize or acknowledge because they are afraid to.

Chaos, allows for the world to progress, it creates a setting in which change can occur. A society that has become complacent and settles for total order cannot make positive(or negative) strides forward. We have seen what happens when people become sick of the complacency and embrace chaos to try and create a change. For example, those townspeople last summer rebelled because they felt they were not being treated fairly. Chaos reminds us that we have free will and can help create the future we want to see.

Chaos is unique in that it is not only a natural force that occurs all around us, but it is also a tool. It is something that happens whether we like it or not and it is something that many people use or misuse to create the outcome that they want to see. It does not only destroy life but also allows for those who would not normally survive to thrive. It not only helps new leaders usurp the old but also reminds current leaders that their complacency or abuse of power will inevitably lead to a revolution of the people who want change.

So what I ask of each of you is to realize that though this world has almost ended, it did not. With our survival has come a time of change. A time in which some will feel uncomfortable because their precious sense of order has seemingly been eliminated. Right now is when people like you and I are able to affect how this new age develops and who it will serve, if it will serve anyone. Until once again in the future, chaos up heaves everything for new change to occur.

If you wish to discuss this further, whether you agree or not, you may reach me by private missive or find me when I am in town.

-end of article, the following is scribbled on the bottom-

I thought I would save some paper and reuse my article.

-ava

Merikh, change have respect to had.

The only reason I am here today is because I was forced to leave my village to keep everyone I knew and loved from being brutally murdered. AND THEN I get banished from my village for false crimes, then the village burns and everyone dies because of Xualla and his demons. SO DON'T YOU DARE, act like you know what my life has been and whether or not I had a choice! I did all I could, SACRIFICED WHO I WAS in order to keep everyone I loved alive, AND THEY STILL DIED! So never say you know my choices because you don't!